Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Actually,
Rev 12:5 SAYS her seed was caught up to God

Actually, no it doesn't.

Revelation 12:5 KJV And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Also, it's interesting that you're condemning pre-trib vehemently, yet you have not displayed the same ire towards post-trib.

This is a thread about pre trib rapture doctrine being heretical. It is not a thread about post trib doctrine being heretical. (And by "post trib", pretty much anything that is not pre or mid trib or pre wrath is "post trib", whether futurist, historicist, or preterist, or idealist.) Pre trib doctrine is heretical false doctrine because it literally declares as true the EXACT OPPOSITE from what the Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS.

The opening post proves it. The apostle declared that the coming of the Lord Jesus and our gathering together with Him SHALL NOT COME UNTIL AFTER the falling away, the rise of the man of sin, the revealing of the man of sin, and the man of sin's entire career has completed, which career will end by his destruction, which destruction happens at the coming of the Lord - which according to the same passage is when our gathering together with Christ takes place.

Pre trib rapturism says the coming of the Lord and our gathering together with Him takes place BEFORE the rise of the man of sin, his revealing, and his career, and his destruction at the SECOND "Second Coming" of the Lord.

It is what it is.

Look at Michael the Disciple's (MTD) post. He believes the "man of sin" a.k.a antichrist is a literal human being while you believe it's clericalism.

Won't you condemn him as well since he is teaching heresy according to your belief???

Heresy is not defined as that which is other than Esaias' belief. Heresy is that which is other than and contrary to the APOSTLES' TEACHINGS. The apostle did not IDENTIFY how the man of sin prophecy would be fulfilled. There are, therefore, various OPINIONS as to how that prophecy would be fulfilled. The OPINION I put forth, identifying the man of sin with the rise of clericalism, is the only one TO MY KNOWLEDGE that meets all the data points given in the prophecy. And as I pointed out, the common futurist OPINION as to a future man of sin does not match ALL the data points of the prophecy, hence I consider it to be erroneous.

But the MAIN POINT HERE is to notice that the apostle did not say "now here's how this prophecy shall be fulfilled". Therefore, it would be OUT OF PLACE to claim a person's OPINION on how a particular prophecy may be fulfilled in the future is "heretical", UNLESS that opinion directly contradicts the plain statements of Scripture.

Furthermore, HERESIES are usually taught as DOCTRINE, not opinions. Pre trib rapturism is ALWAYS taught as DOCTRINE, not as "hey, this is just my speculative opinion, I could be wrong because it doesn't really say one way or the other, blah blah blah." Pre trib rapture teaching is considered SOLID GOLD GOSPEL TRUTH right along with it's mother dispensationalism. Both of which are heresies that deny important fundamental doctrines OF THE BIBLE.

Obviously you believe that one's eschatology is irrelevant. Others believe differently.

Don't misunderstand me here. I'm not trying to be mean to anyone. I'm just telling it like it is. I would want others to tell me like it is. If *I* am in false doctrine, then lay it out and let er rip. All this milquetoast "let's not be too dogmatic about anything" is completely unbiblical.

EDIT: I went back and found brother Michael's post. All he did was post scripture. What is there to argue about? Looks like he is saying the man of sin is the abomination of desolation? I have no idea. If he wants to talk about it, I'm sure he will.

I'm considered a heretic as it is by the majority of professing Christians anyway because I don't acknowledge their God Squad.