Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[n david]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Was God beating Stephen when he was stoned, or James when he was murdered?

Was God beating Israel when they were present during the plagues in Egypt?

Sorry, but I just don't get this "wife-beater" accusation.

1) Stephen wasn't receiving God's wrath. You don't understand this. I posted this earlier when you stated Sean "wasn't worthy" to be persecuted for His name sake. Revelation's Great Tribulation is not persecution of man - it's the great and terrible wrath of God. Post-trib claims the church will be made to endure the wrath of God. If that's the case, it means God will pour out His wrath, not only on sinners, but on His bride. Really? I simply don't believe it. Nowhere in the Bible did God do this previously. But yet we're being ridiculed and called every name in the book because we don't believe God will pour out His wrath on His bride.

2) Israel was present in Goshen, but they did not experience His wrath.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Pre trib: Apparently can only be defended by whining, ad hominems, hysterics, red herrings, assorted other fallacies, and general weaseliness. Kind of like liberalism and atheism. But such is typical at the Laodocean General conference that has become 'Murikan Religion.

More hypocrisy. More Alinsky.

I'm not whining. I'm just stating I see your tactics.

You're the one who whined about my use of bride beater and spouse abuser.

You're the one who's used ad hominem attacks and the rest (cultists, mind control cult, heretic, etc etc)

Are you seeing your reflection in the monitor as you're typing your posts?

Your kids okay? How do you cover the bruises?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

All this "wife beater" garbage and the various Seanisms are an insult to every believer who ever had to endure tribulation and persecution for the Word of God. American Christianity is in full blown apostasy.

Originally Posted by Originalist

I was thinking the same thing. Sean came across like a mocking lunatic for berating those who will and have suffered for Christ. And this accusation that we WANT to suffer, or are looking for a martyr's death. What a complete lunatic. I guess he must be watching Kenneth Copeland or something, learning that children of God who suffer don't have God's favor or have a lack of faith. Total and complete garbage. Sean will take the mark, as you said, because his pretrib view won't let him believe that i is actually the mark of the beast he is taking. Pre cultism.

Again, and this isn't hard:

Persecution, trials and tribulation for the Word of God or for His Name sake is NOT the same as the Great Tribulation of Revelation.

The former is wrath of men.
The latter is the wrath of God.

Once again - people past and present who have suffered persecution for His name, suffered the wrath of men, not God.

Those here during the Great Tribulation written about in Revelation will be suffering the wrath of God, not man.

If you can't understand this, I don't know what to tell you.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by n david

1) Stephen wasn't receiving God's wrath. You don't understand this. I posted this earlier when you stated Sean "wasn't worthy" to be persecuted for His name sake. Revelation's Great Tribulation is not persecution of man - it's the great and terrible wrath of God. Post-trib claims the church will be made to endure the wrath of God. If that's the case, it means God will pour out His wrath, not only on sinners, but on His bride. Really? I simply don't believe it. Nowhere in the Bible did God do this previously. But yet we're being ridiculed and called every name in the book because we don't believe God will pour out His wrath on His bride.


This is a common misconception of the post-trib position. I used to make the same claim when I was pre-trib. But I realize now I was wrong. The post-trib position is that the Tribulation is not a period of constant wrath. The wrath comes AFTER the Tribulation. Thus, we do not believe that the church endures the wrath of God. Within post-trib eschatology there are varying opinions on just how long the wrath lasts, but the consensus is that it is a brief period of time.

2) Israel was present in Goshen, but they did not experience His wrath.

Nor will the church. As Israel was protected, so will we be protected. It is fine to disagree with the post-trib position, but one should not mischaracterize it after having learned the actual position.

[mfblume]

You guys still silent on my view that says before Christi comes the world will wage war against the church, thereby refuting your escapist accusation about my view?

Come on, guys. ' Fess up.

MTD made that accusation three times now, and you joined in, Originalist. And with MTD, I responded with this note and suffered short term memory loss and forgot I even said it. And he still accuses with it. You look like you're going to bury it again and forget again, only to accuse the same lie in a few weeks or so.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Here is the result of pre trib teaching. No vision or faith to trust God in the evil times. So what are these POOR TRIBULATION saints going to do when the mark is forced on them?

They will die for the Lord Jesus amen? If they....by your theory are willing to die for Jesus as second class second chance saved Christians how about the true bride of Jesus?

Would THEY forsake Jesus in fear? The terrible truth is that many have been set up by pre trib heresy so that when suffering for his name becomes real they will flee from Jesus in terror! Thus a great falling away.

Sean we are trying to open some of the eyes of pre tribbers that they might get a vision that sustains their faith in the worst of times. Millions have been slain for this glorious name of Jesus already.

Why? Because they loved Jesus more than their own lives. They found the secret of the Christian life.

THY LOVINGKINDNESS IS BETTER THAN LIFE.

Very well spoken Michael, but your proposal is not Biblical.

No pre-tribber thinks they will not face at least the beginning of the Tribulation.....



So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.



The Great Tribulation will be knocking at the door when the Bridegroom calls His virgins.

They will all be asleep(unworthy), but those that have not let the oil run out of their lamps(Spirit led), will be removed.

In the case of the flood, the water that carried Noah to safety(salvation) destroyed the lost.

In the case of the return of the Bridegroom, the Lord that takes His church to safety is the destroyer of the lost.....




16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?



I hope that you can see the 2 fold aspect of the coming of Christ someday, bro.

[Sean]

God saved Noah and his family from physical destruction, but will not save His bride from physical destruction?


This makes the comparison Jesus used in Matt. null and void.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

People can whine all they want but the facts remain:

Pre trib rapture doctrine is a heresy.
People who believe and promote heresies are heretics.
Heresies are a work of the flesh.
Those who "do them" will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Therefore, pre trib rapturists will not inherit the kingdom of God.

"Oh, that's MEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!"

One of the biggest evidences that pre trib rapture teaching is malarkey false doctrine is the overall responses from the resident pre tribbers.

It is easy for you to say from your abandoned govt. bomb shelter deep underground.


I hope you will let Michael and Originalist in your "ark" when the antichrist makes war with you guys and overcomes you guys.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

All this "wife beater" garbage and the various Seanisms are an insult to every believer who ever had to endure tribulation and persecution for the Word of God. American Christianity is in full blown apostasy.

Seanism.....hmmm, I like that.

Are you thinking of becoming a Seanist now?....LOL

[Sean]

One third of all men are killed just when the 6th angel sounds. That would be BILLIONS OF SINNERS killed by our God and Savior at one shot of his judgment!

I can see the living saints now, burying all the bodies of these billions and foraging for their existence for years......not.