Does God Still Kill People (Ananias and Sapphira)?

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Good post Bro. Not only would they not want Paul over them, they would not want him in the Church PERIOD!

LOL As sad as that is, you are probably right!

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by jediwill83

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before
you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou
and thy seed may live:”
When a man chooses evil, he incurs God’s curse, and he will die: but listen
still: man also brings the curse upon his seed! Or will God not visit man’s sin
upon his third and fourth generation? But you will say that God is not equal.
“Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins, and YOU SHALL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the
promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as
many as the Lord our God shall call.” Are you listening? If God would visit man’s
sin unto the fourth generation, is it any wonder that God would visit his PROMISE
unto the fourth generation? Choose LIFE!
Brother Villa

__________________________________________________ __________

Man is responsible for his OWN sin.
Ezekiel 18
1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
5Bt if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
7And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
8He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
9Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
10If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
11And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
12Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
13Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
14Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,
15That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,
16Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,
17That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.
18As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity. The Soul who Sins will Die
19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.[/QUOTE]
______________________________

YOU WROTE: "Man is responsible for his OWN sin."
And you are quite correct. You got the scripture right, but missed the context.

I confess I have sinned (I say that to my shame, but to His glory). I wonder if
anyone else on this forum has sinned: my guess is yes. Did we inherit Adam's
sin? I do not believe we did: but what about his propensity to sin? If I honestly
answer yes, then MY SEED will also inherit MY propensity to sin! And if that is
the case, then that is why Jesus died for ALL humanity: "For ALL have sinned
and come sort of the glory of God."

So it is not OUR SIN that was passed on to our children, but the CURSE
upon whomsoever will sin.

Brother Villa

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Let's take it even further:

Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
(1 Corinthians 11:27-32)

Looks like there are two consequences to partaking of the Lord's Supper in an unworthy manner (ie by being rude and insensitive and uncharitable to the other members of the Body):

The first is a spiritual effect, "damnation". Obviously, if you aren't loving the brethren you are in danger of hellfire.

The second is "many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep." In other words, by allowing the Lord's Supper to be abused, a situation is created in the church where many are weak, and get sick, and some even die. Not so much that God is individually striking individual offenders down with death so much but rather God has withdrawn the presence of Divine Health from the assembly so that members are falling victim to illness and death "before their time".

So how the individual members act affects the overall life and vitality of the whole assembly.

It should be noticed that these effects are considered by the apostle to be the Lord chastening (correcting) His church, not necessarily dumping His wrath on the church. So physical illness and even death is occasionally used by God as a corrective measure to purify His Bride.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Thats the problem. In Bible days when God killed someone I seriously doubt if everyone was in agreement that God had done it. We accept it because we think the Bible is true history.

Others who lived at the time may have had their own ideas what happened.

I could tell several stories where I believe God did it yet Im sure almost everyone else would be highly offended and so how awful to think such things.

Probably many are not sensitive enough to the Spirit to tell if it were God. I mean most Church members nowadays dont believe in the FEAR OF GOD......much less the JUDGMENT OF GOD.

Excellent point.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Thanks Jedi and Mike.

Going a little further into it, if someone dies today, can it be known or proven that God was the One who caused or orchestrated that death?

I know we have the Scriptural examples. But outside of the Scriptures? The Yasser Arafat example, for example, from the OP. The claim was God killed him. Is there a way to substantiate that beyond subjectivity?

So, even if we can show through the Scriptures that God has killed people, how do we show evidence of it happening today?

I remember feeling like Arafat was slain by God. Many might disagree with me, but I sincerely felt it. I took no "joy" in it, but there was some sense of relief in that I never trusted the man.

I have also seen people throughout my life who have fallen ill for a season, or who have died, and I felt that it was a judgment from God. Most of the time, I keep it to myself, try to forgive any wrong I perceived was done to me, and pray that God have mercy on their soul on the Day of Judgment.

I don't know if there is any way to truly "know" if God has killed an individual or not. It may be an issue of spiritual discernment in an individual, unless the individual's evil towards God's people and the Gospel was so great, it's nearly a universal understanding.

I think it is also important to note that God's judgment doesn't always involve sudden heart attacks, strokes, or deadly illness. Sometimes God uses circumstances. For example, God used invading armies to judge both His enemies and even His own people. Many lives were lost when God appointed these invasions and captivities. I believe that God has also used what might appear to be tragic or freak accidents to bring judgment.

Lastly, and I know most of us already realize this, but if God does something, though it might seem absolutely terrible, it is just. It might to be "good" but we can know that it will be "just", and that the final outcome will ultimately be for the good of His people in accordance to His plan.

[Aquila]

I know a person who was a precious saint of God. But some terrible things happened in their life, the death of a child and a painful divorce. It rocked them so badly, they backslid into sin. They would often repent and "get right", only to begin to struggle in their faith and fall again. Their life was marked with significant ups and downs. Then they experienced a sudden health crisis (a mini-stroke). It immediately put them in the hospital and all the doctors emphasized how serious a stroke could be. This individual became very grateful to just be alive. They called me from the hospital and we prayed over the phone. They confessed to unconfessed sin, they told me how they had been foolish and made the wrong decisions in life due to the pain and depression they allowed themselves to give in to. They seemed truly determined to "live for God" from that moment forward. We hung up the phone because they wanted to make several other calls to friends and family they had in the church. I remember thinking, "Lord, your ways are so wonderful. I pray this event helps them to truly see that their only happiness will be found in living for you." I then got a call at around 2am that night. This individual had suffered a major stroke during the night and had passed. At first I was shocked. Truly shocked. It was so sudden and the doctors had seemed so optimistic about their recovery. I woke my wife and told her the news. We were both in shock over our friend's sudden passing. I had to go downstairs to get something to drink and clear my head before laying back down and going to sleep. I remember praying for their family and at one point I felt the impression in my spirit, "Do not weep as one who has no hope. My child's struggles, pain, and backslidings are over. I, the LORD, have chosen to bring them home this night. For I have loved them."

I hadn't told anyone about that impression at the kitchen table at between 2 and 3am that night. But maybe a week after the funeral I was talking to one of their family members and the passing of this dear saint came up. Their own family member said, "You know, they always struggled to live for God. I always feared that eventually they'd drift so far they'd never come back. But that night it seemed like they had made their peace with God and had given it all over to Him. Maybe taking them that night was the only way God could bring them home."

After hearing that, I knew I wasn't the only one who felt that impression. I do believe that God took that precious saint on that very night because they were prone to backsliding. In doing this, He brought them to their knees one last time so that they might repent, and having made their peace with Him... He took them to ensure their eternal salvation.

God is so good. God is so wise. His timing is always perfect. His mercy endures forever.

[Aquila]

It seems like most of us agree that God does bring death to the wicked, and might even use death to afflict His children, should it be absolutely necessary for correction or to bring them home.

But here's a rather controversial question. It's controversial on several fronts. And sure this topic must be handled with much care and clarification. So here goes...

Might God sometimes literally answer imprecatory prayers?

For example, here are a couple imprecatory prayers from the Psalms:

“Break the teeth in their mouths, O God; tear out, O Lord, the fangs of the lions! Let them vanish like water that flows away; when they draw the bow, let their arrows be blunted. Like a slug melting away as it moves along, like a stillborn child, may they not see the sun. The righteous will be glad when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked.” Psalm 58.6-10.

“Pour out your wrath on them; let your fierce anger overtake them. May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents. For they persecute those you wound and talk about the pain of those you hurt. Charge them with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your salvation. May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.” Psalm 69.24-28.

When one has proven themselves to be an enemy of all righteousness, an enemy of God's people, an enemy of God's eternal message of salvation, an enemy of liberty, an enemy of humanity... might we be moved to pray prayers of judgment or imprecation? And as a result... might God, on occasion, answer these prayers by afflicting the wicked, and even perhaps... kill them?

Of course God isn't going to answer some imprecatory prayer because someone flamed us on Facebook, or because someone cut us off in traffic. However, when an enemy is truly filled with the devil, might God arise to smite the enemies of His people who pray for His mighty hand to deliver them?

Here are 10 biblical examples of imprecatory prayer:

1.Jeremiah 11
2.Jeremiah 18
3.Psalms 10
4.Psalms 55
5.Psalms 58
6.Psalms 59
7.Psalms 109
8.Psalms 140
9.Psalms 143
10.Acts 13:6-12

[jediwill83]

Originally Posted by Aquila

It seems like most of us agree that God does bring death to the wicked, and might even use death to afflict His children, should it be absolutely necessary for correction or to bring them home.

But here's a rather controversial question. It's controversial on several fronts. And sure this topic must be handled with much care and clarification. So here goes...

Might God sometimes literally answer imprecatory prayers?

For example, here are a couple imprecatory prayers from the Psalms:

“Break the teeth in their mouths, O God; tear out, O Lord, the fangs of the lions! Let them vanish like water that flows away; when they draw the bow, let their arrows be blunted. Like a slug melting away as it moves along, like a stillborn child, may they not see the sun. The righteous will be glad when they bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked.” Psalm 58.6-10.

“Pour out your wrath on them; let your fierce anger overtake them. May their place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in their tents. For they persecute those you wound and talk about the pain of those you hurt. Charge them with crime upon crime; do not let them share in your salvation. May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.” Psalm 69.24-28.

When one has proven themselves to be an enemy of all righteousness, an enemy of God's people, an enemy of God's eternal message of salvation, an enemy of liberty, an enemy of humanity... might we be moved to pray prayers of judgment or imprecation? And as a result... might God, on occasion, answer these prayers by afflicting the wicked, and even perhaps... kill them?

Of course God isn't going to answer some imprecatory prayer because someone flamed us on Facebook, or because someone cut us off in traffic. However, when an enemy is truly filled with the devil, might God arise to smite the enemies of His people who pray for His mighty hand to deliver them?

Here are 10 biblical examples of imprecatory prayer:

1.Jeremiah 11
2.Jeremiah 18
3.Psalms 10
4.Psalms 55
5.Psalms 58
6.Psalms 59
7.Psalms 109
8.Psalms 140
9.Psalms 143
10.Acts 13:6-12

Psalm 35

[Michael The Disciple]

Aquila

After hearing that, I knew I wasn't the only one who felt that impression. I do believe that God took that precious saint on that very night because they were prone to backsliding. In doing this, He brought them to their knees one last time so that they might repent, and having made their peace with Him... He took them to ensure their eternal salvation.

YES