Quote:
Originally Posted by Tithesmeister
I'm glad you asked. The argument is whether the ruler who watches for your soul, is a minister, or a government official. Also whether the soul is a physical life or an eternal soul.
I contend that the ruler was referring to the people that are over the Hebrews in the day, who were also Jews, (exemplified by Nicodemus) and NOT the Romans OR the pastor, as 1ofthechosen has professed.
|
Let's remove this from Hebrews and look at the Gentile version of the admonishment to obey they that rule over you. Peter said to submit . . .
[13]
Submit yourselves to
every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the
king, as supreme;
[14] Or unto
governors, as unto
them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
[15] For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
Peter was talking to the "strangers" which should almost certainly be understood to be Gentiles. The word of God was not being read by the rulers of the Gentiles, so that part of the message would not apply, but the submission to government authority is there.
Paul said it like this . . .
1 Timothy 2
[1] I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
[2] For
kings, and for
all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
Here's the mention of authority that y'all have failed to connect to the role of pastor through scripture, Paul specifically mentions kings, he fails to mention pastors. It seems strange that he would mention kings (an example of secular authority) and not mention authority in the church, if that is what he intended.
Another example given by Paul . . .
[1] Let
every soul be subject unto the
higher powers. For there is no power but of God:
the powers that be are ordained of God.
[2] Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
[3] For
rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
[4] For he is the
minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for
he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is
the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Here we have the
soul that is
subject (in submission to) the higher powers. Later in verse 3 this higher power is referred to as a
ruler. The
ruler beareth the sword. These are strong words. They don't refer to the authority of a pastor. Doesn't this follow the same pattern of
Hebrews 13? The soul, the ruler, the subjection . . . But no-one interprets this as a pastor . . do they?
Hebrews 13 and
Romans 13 are telling the same story in my opinion. I believe the narrative is changed somewhat to fit the audience. Hebrews is written to Hebrews (Jews) and Romans is written to Romans (Gentiles). Otherwise the fundamentals are the same, with the obvious exception that the word of God that is read in the temple in Jerusalem, is noticeably absent among the similar admonishments to the Gentiles.
Re: Saved Without A Pastor??
Threaded Mode
