2 Peter 3

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I need to ask you this because you wrote this.



All I have been presenting is the fact that the apostles taught there is a day coming when Jesus will actually COME FOR HIS PEOPLE.

No idea why it would be opposed.

What *I* have been opposing is faulty exegesis and interpretation of texts, and a faulty paradigm of prophecy understanding. I did not oppose the idea of the return of Christ and the resurrection of the saints.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

Absolutely agree with that, and I think we as Apostolic's need to come out of these boxes created by Trinitarian's. If someone is going to create a hybrid Theology it has to be in this area. It makes no sense to not agree on soteriology, sanctification, the identity of God, and then agree on Eschatology. But your right sis it all is viewed through a certain lens, with a predetermined view in mind. And in that, you cant see anything outside of that. Or even comprehend anything anyone is saying outside of that line of thinking. I'd rather sit back and observe it with no predisposed ideas, and look into it and see what the Bible is relating. I believe this is a area as a movement that this is needed like never before.

You're on the right track. I believe there is a Biblical "system of eschatology", but to find it we have to first, drop whatever hand me down borrowed isms we've been exposed to and then second, start at Genesis and just let the Word teach us all about it.

Everybody wants to start at the end, Revelation, probably the most complicated book of the Bible. You can't build a house by beginning with the interior decorating, you have to have a good foundation FIRST.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You're on the right track. I believe there is a Biblical "system of eschatology", but to find it we have to first, drop whatever hand me down borrowed isms we've been exposed to and then second, start at Genesis and just let the Word teach us all about it.

Everybody wants to start at the end, Revelation, probably the most complicated book of the Bible. You can't build a house by beginning with the interior decorating, you have to have a good foundation FIRST.

Or better yet why not let Jesus Christ, the Lord of both the Old and New Testament teach us? He was fully aware of and knowledgeable of the things the prophets saw and spoke of. He spoke of his coming again for his people, the end times, and trained his apostles so they would get his message out.

Many of the "eschatology" teachers are making things more garbled and confused than bringing clarity.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You're on the right track. I believe there is a Biblical "system of eschatology", but to find it we have to first, drop whatever hand me down borrowed isms we've been exposed to and then second, start at Genesis and just let the Word teach us all about it.

Everybody wants to start at the end, Revelation, probably the most complicated book of the Bible. You can't build a house by beginning with the interior decorating, you have to have a good foundation FIRST.

I agree here I believe this is a 100 % correct.

[1ofthechosen]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Or better yet why not let Jesus Christ, the Lord of both the Old and New Testament teach us? He was fully aware of and knowledgeable of the things the prophets saw and spoke of. He spoke of his coming again for his people, the end times, and trained his apostles so they would get his message out.

MTD once again no one is disputing these things, just your interpretation of the time table of events. You are totally overlooking 2000 years of events. Would you at least admit the great falling away has happened, beginning in the 3rd century?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

MTD once again no one is disputing these things, just your interpretation of the time table of events. You are totally overlooking 2000 years of events. Would you at least admit the great falling away has happened, beginning in the 3rd century?

Friend,

You dont seem to be able to even understand that there are those on the forum who are full preterists. Meaning they believe Jesus came in 70ad, the resurrection of the dead took place at that time.

Ask MBlume what is the difference in what he believes and what Benincasa believes. Maybe coming from that direction your eyes will be opened. If you cant understand whats going on here it would do little good to talk about the falling away.

IMO someone teaching Jesus came in 70 ad, resurrected the dead saints, then translated the living saints to "glory" is as FALLEN AWAY as is possible.

Nothing is more foolish and laughable than that.

And yet, people are acting as if they are really being fed off such nonsense, and either they cant see whats actually being said or they are PRETENDING they cant see.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Or better yet why not let Jesus Christ, the Lord of both the Old and New Testament teach us? He was fully aware of and knowledgeable of the things the prophets saw and spoke of. He spoke of his coming again for his people, the end times, and trained his apostles so they would get his message out.

Many of the "eschatology" teachers are making things more garbled and confused than bringing clarity.

I have studied prophecy, beginning in Genesis and moving forward. Including through the NT. As a result, your end times outlook just doesn't cut the mustard. For me, anyway. Your mileage may vary.

I don't think you have a solid base from which to even begin a study of prophecy. You say "Why not let Jesus teach us?" but you won't actually let Him do that, instead you want Him to teach you your version of post trib futurism.

It's been Biblically proven that "the coming of the Lord" and "the day of the Lord" do not necessarily always refer to what you think of as the Second Coming. So just because those phrases appear in a text doesn't mean it is always talking about the Second Advent.
your apparent refusal to acknowledge that reality renders your opinions on eschatology irrelevant to me.

Jesus taught many things about prophecy you clearly don't believe, because they don't fit your system. And, all your system REALLY amounts to is "at some point, some rough stuff will happen, it's just gonna get worse, so no need to make any efforts to do anything except wait to die." Literally, in PRACTICAL terms, no different than the rapture cult in it's actual effects.

Would your eschatology ever convince you to encourage young people to get married, and have as many children as possible, and work on building a better future for their grandkids? Or no?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Friend,

You dont seem to be able to even understand that there are those on the forum who are full preterists. Meaning they believe Jesus came in 70ad, the resurrection of the dead took place at that time.

Ask MBlume what is the difference in what he believes and what Benincasa believes. Maybe coming from that direction your eyes will be opened. If you cant understand whats going on here it would do little good to talk about the falling away.

IMO someone teaching Jesus came in 70 ad, resurrected the dead saints, then translated the living saints to "glory" is as FALLEN AWAY as is possible.

Nothing is more foolish and laughable than that.

And yet, people are acting as if they are really being fed off such nonsense, and either they cant see whats actually being said or they are PRETENDING they cant see.

You do realize there are only about four full preterists here, only one of whom posts more often than say once a month, if that?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

MTD once again no one is disputing these things, just your interpretation of the time table of events. You are totally overlooking 2000 years of events. Would you at least admit the great falling away has happened, beginning in the 3rd century?

I am not overlooking events of the past. I understand like Peter was trying to teach the saints that with God a thousand years is as one day and one day is as a thousand years.

There was a great falling away from the faith. Now there has been a (at least partial) restoration of the faith. At the time of the end there will be another falling away.
You may notice things can repeat themselves during the many centuries we are talking about.

Yet there is only ONE SPECIFIC time prophesied when Jesus will actually COME AND GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT, including the resurrection and the rapture.

Thats what this is all about

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You do realize there are only about four full preterists here, only one of whom posts more often than say once a month, if that?

My point is to CHOSEN because he does not understand there are ANY here.