Be Perfect Be Pure

[Costeon]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sin free means you dont have sin in your life. This is the norm for all Christians.

Rom. 6:1-2

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

First off we must have faith that we are what the Holy Ghost says we are. Here he says we are dead to sin. Sounds different than what we normally hear right? If we are dead to sin Paul says how can we keep doing it.

That shows us right there something is wrong when a Christian sins. Its not normal.

Are Christians supposed to be FREE FROM SIN?

Romans 6:6-7

6Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

This happens at the beginning of a Christan life. The old man is crucified, destroyed. Afterwards Paul teaches we need not sin.



Its not that one instantly loses their salvation. What he does lose is perfection toward God. If we have sin in our life we are not perfect toward him. God gives us time to repent. If the sin remains in our life God will withdraw his favor from the person. We are not given to know how long one can keep sin in their life before God chastens them. Neither how long before he no longer considers them his.

What is certain is if the sin is not overcome the ultimate result is the person does not enter the kingdom.

You quote me saying this.



I believe I explained by Romans 5:10

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Salvation is by Jesus Christ the person. He initially forgives our sins. Then through his life......the Holy Spirit in us, he continues to save us by giving us power to overcome sin.

Romans 8:12-13

12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

There will be a finality to this walk. If the Christian continues in sin he will die. This means for eternity. If he through the Spirit (Jesus Christ) mortifies or "kills" the deeds of the body he will live. That means for eternity.


What you seem to have missed is that I teach if one repents they are perfect again. Turning from sin results in it being washed away. Gone.

Nonetheless it is Jesus himself who said only those who do the Fathers will enter his kingdom.

Matt 7:21

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus gave the example of the good Samaritan concerning loving our neighbor. The Samaritan found a man in bad shape on the road. He ministered what he could to the guy and then got him a place to stay until he was well.

The example is that we help one in need. Is this something IMPOSSIBLE to do? Minister to ones need? Help them? Give them a place to stay?

Note that the example was NOT that the good Samaritan then went door to door looking for anyone and everyone in need to minister to. No. Rather it is an example of doing what you can where you are.

If we refuse to help the needy when we can do it guess what?

Jesus said he will send us away into eternal punishment. Matt 25:41-46

Why is it in a discussion of holiness and perfection it comes down to AM I DOING IT?

Is is Gods word or not? It is Gods word regardless if I or anyone else does it. Thats why Jesus said FEW find eternal life.

If I dont do Gods will I will not enter Heaven nor will anyone else.

I think I do now understand what you mean by perfection. Thank you for clarifying. One is perfect when one is perfectly obedient, that is, sinless; one is imperfect when one imperfectly obeys. Salvation is only for those who are perfect. When on sins, one loses one's perfection, but regains it upon repenting; therefore, if one should die or be alive when the Lord returns and be in the state of imperfection, he will be sent to hell.

It won't really help for me to go line by line and show you how I disagree with your interpretation of the Scripture. I won't change your mind, and you won't change mind. So, my goal now is just to urge you to remove all inconsistencies from your position.

You say: "Its not that one instantly loses their salvation. What he does lose is perfection toward God." You have repeatedly asserted that one must be perfect to be saved. So, you cannot then say that there are any times of when someone is imperfect but still saved. You are either perfect and saved or imperfect and lost. Those are the only alternatives for your view.

I will continue to disagree with your position, but I will respect your consistency if you just say, "Yes, a person is lost the moment he sins and is imperfect and remains lost till he repents and is perfect again, because only the perfect will enter the kingdom of God."

You added: "If we have sin in our life we are not perfect toward him. God gives us time to repent. If the sin remains in our life God will withdraw his favor from the person. We are not given to know how long one can keep sin in their life before God chastens them. Neither how long before he no longer considers them his."

This idea could work with my view but not yours.

So here are the implications of your view:

- Jesus doesn't love you when you sin and are imperfect. (I'm not sure what the alternative is. Does he hate you? Is he indifferent toward you?) He loves you again when you repent. His love is, therefore, entirely dependent on your behavior. He's worse than a human father who doesn't cease loving his children even though they may do something displeasing to him.

- You have a works-based salvation. As I mentioned in a previous post: "If our salvation is dependent on my moment by moment obedience--my perfection--then I am in effect saving myself. If I lose my justified status the instant I have failed in any way, then my justification is based on me not on Christ's grace."

These are, in my opinion, unbiblical implications and so your interpretation of passages that lead to them must be incorrect.