Why Sunday

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by mfblume

As I said, someone I know honestly and sincerely set out to do that with twice of much work on a Friday as any other day, so that Saturday's food was all prepared. And it is more work on the sixth. It just is. You work twice as much on the sixth day to do none of the seventh, so far as food is concerned, and other things that must be done before the
seventh day arrives when it cannot be done. Chores. etc. This person told me it was really wracking. They were not engaging in it to argue a point, but to honestly try it. And to think that all of that change and effort is necessary to keep the sabbath, shows quite an effort to change, let alone work twice as much on the sixth day.

Brother Blume, it seems illogical to me that the 10 commandments, which were written by the finger of God rather than dictated to Moses, are to be done away with.
They all are the culmination of loving God, and loving your neighbor:

Romans 13:8-10
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

As far as preparation being difficult, I don't believe cooking food in advance on Friday for two days will be a problem.
And then spending Saturday praying, reading, writing, taking walks, and spending time with my family will be a great preparation for Sunday worship.

I have a great advantage in that I am introverted, love to read and love to spend time at home and in nature.

My Sister texted me yesterday about going out to eat and to the mall on Saturday, I'm going to text her back and say "let's pack a picnic lunch, go the wildlife preserve and take a long walk."
The area I live in has many parks and preserves, not to mention beaches, rivers, and lakes, and the climate is so accommodating for taking long walks and enjoying nature.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

However, sabbath keepers can easily say that Mosaic ordinances are very distinct from the 10 Commandments.

Thus, Hebrews 8:13 has zero application to the Decalogue, see the post above.

The 10 are not the “old covenant”.
And are not subject to any decay or waxing between 30 AD and 70 AD.

Absolutely. But now we are starting to get into the in-house discussion re: theonomy and the proposed distinction between the law of God and the law of Moses. I notice that the royal law in James is linked to Leviticus 19:18, for example. But again, that's getting into other territory beyond the permanence of the Decalogue. On that we can certainly agree.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You can hypocritically keep sabbath but you cannot hypocritically refrain from adultery or murder, etc.

Sure you can. Jesus specifically pointed out those two examples in fact, demonstrating what you say cannot be done can in fact be done and in fact is all too common.

Also, James 2:10 comes into play.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Sabbath-keeping is not moral, other than the reasoning that we morally must do whatever God says to do even if the thing he says to do is not moral in itself..

God would not grow weary in any way if someone was faithful to refraining from adultery or refraining from murder. Would God ever say that our forbiddance from murder and theft and adultery were troublesome to him like he said sabbath-keeping of Israel was troubling to him?

Isaiah 1:13-14.. Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. ..(14).. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.

How can sabbath keeping be a trouble to God if sabbath keeping in and of itself is moral? Could you see God speaking of their refusal to murder and commit adultery in those verses instead of feast keeping and sabbath keeping? Of course not.

Israel trusted in these things when their hearts were not right. Can that be said about refraining from adultery? No, because refusing to commit adultery is in and of itself moral and can never be part of anything that makes its value into something of no value.

You can hypocritically keep sabbath but you cannot hypocritically refrain from adultery or murder, etc.

A police officer CHP was murdering young women. He would pull them over and instead of writing a citation murder them. Hypocrisy can be across the board. Being a loving spouse yet committing betrayal of vows to God concerning marriage. Sadly the list is long.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

However, sabbath keepers can easily say that Mosaic ordinances are very distinct from the 10 Commandments.

Thus, Hebrews 8:13 has zero application to the Decalogue, see the post above.

The 10 are not the “old covenant”.
And are not subject to any decay or waxing between 30 AD and 70 AD.

Brother Avery,

You say that the Ten Commandments are not the old covenant. Moses said (as you know) that they were the covenant.

Here is a question for you and Esaias specifically and of course, anyone generally;
What specifically is the covenant that has become old and is ready to vanish away?

Esaias?

Steven Avery?

Anyone?

Because the obvious answer appears to be the Sinaitic covenant. And the language quotes Jeremiah 31, which is definitely about the Mosaic law.

Jeremiah 31

31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
[32] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

And in Hebrews 8 . . .

[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

The author of Hebrews is quoting Jeremiah 31. It is going to be hard to convince me that he is not pointing out the fulfillment of prophecy and therefore is not speaking of the old covenant, which certainly includes the Decalogue as the main component.

The covenant that God made with them, when he took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt? That would be the Mosaic law in general and the Ten Commandments in particular! Is there any other covenant that would be consistent with this description?

Please point out where I am mistaken.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

A police officer CHP was murdering young women. He would pull them over and instead of writing a citation murder them. Hypocrisy can be across the board. Being a loving spouse yet committing betrayal of vows to God concerning marriage. Sadly the list is long.

True, However his fidelity with his wife wouldn't be a reference to describing his hypocrisy and making it useless as Sabbaths would. In fact, we never read anything about something moral in the bible being useless, but only amoral ceremonial things like sabbath. That is like circumcision in flesh meaning nothing if the inward is absent.

[Tithesmeister]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The old covenant is gone. NOt sure why you claim that I think it is not.

The old covenant was represented by the first tabernacle and you could not get into the second tabernacle if the first was still standing. So, the first tabernacle was removed as much as you can only get into the new covenant if the first is removed.

But if you think that the ten commandments are the old covenant, and claim that my belief that the nine are still in effect then I do not think the old passed away, you have to first prove that I believe the old covenant remains. I never said anything about the old covenant still being in effect, but directly the opposite. And when I said the nine are still in effect, I did not mean anything in the way that you claim I meant. I simply said murder is wrong as much as adultery, etc.



I never actually stated nine are in effect, as such. But I am not sure what you are proposing. What do you mean the Old Covenant in the form of the Ten Commandments passed away?

You agree that nine of the ten were reiterated by Jesus because they were not shadows. That's all that I meant by the fourth is changed into the spiritual rest. Esaias always said that I think one is abolished, but I never said that. I said the fourth is in effect spiritually since it was a foreshadow because they remain in what Jesus and the apostles presented.

The Old Covenant though is far more than the ten commandments. The Old Covenant is a body of covenant that was represented by Hagar and issued at Mount Sinai. It's everything that went forth from Mount Sinai, not just the ten commandments. It involved tabernacle/temple worship. Yes, you could say it is the ten commandments, because everything God gave additional to that was actually applications of the ten

It's more complex than saying that the ark was the ark of the covenant, therefore the ten commandments put inside the ark are the covenant, itself. It's true in one sense. The truth is that everything in the Law of 613 precepts are based on the Ten Commandments. The Ten commandments are the simple form and the rest of the law was all stemmed from them. So, everything Moses was given at Sinai stands for the ten. So, it's the same thing really.

Jesus broke it down further and said Love God and Love your neighbour as yourself. That is basically what the ten commandments are, and in turn, is basically what everything else in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and Exodus are.

Brother Blume,

I apologize for misrepresenting your belief about this. The back and forth sometimes gets complicated. It’s kind of like watching a game of ping pong.

I believe we are in agreement about this. Most people would disagree. It does merit thorough study though.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother Blume,

I apologize for misrepresenting your belief about this. The back and forth sometimes gets complicated. It’s kind of like watching a game of ping pong.

I believe we are in agreement about this. Most people would disagree. It does merit thorough study though.

[diakonos]

So, Amanah was converted to sabbath keeping on Saturday, THEN she’s spending Sunday at church!??

[Amanah]

The early church had church everyday wherever and whenever they could

Acts 2:46 They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity

Rest on Saturday, Shout and dance on Sunday