Why Sunday

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Brother Blume,

If I understand the debate, you believe that all of the Ten Commandments but the one concerning the sabbath, are still in effect.

Esaias believes that ALL ten of the commandments including observing the sabbath are still in effect.

I believe you are both wrong. You are wrong about nine commandments, and Esaias is wrong about ten. Because I believe that the OLD covenant WAS the Ten Commandments.

I have already posted scripture that shows that the covenant was referred to as the Ten Commandments. But there are two. Then there is the fact that God ordered Moses to have an ark built to house the tables of stone.

Deut.10

[1] At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood.
[2] And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark.

God told Moses to build an ark.

What is an ark?

Let me quote Merriam Webster:

\ ˈärk \
Definition of ark (Entry 1 of 2)
1a : a boat or ship held to resemble that in which Noah and his family were preserved from the Flood
b : something that affords protection and safety

If you go with definition b, which I believe applies here, you actually have God telling Moses to build a structure that will provide protection and safety for the two “tables of stone” that the Ten Commandments were written on.

So it shouldn’t be any surprise that the structure built to protect the ”covenant” aka the Ten Commandments would come to be known as the Ark of the Covenant. It is this covenant that is referred to as the OLD covenant in Hebrews. The old covenant is the Ten Commandments.

Therefore the commandment to observe the sabbath is long gone. And so are the others. Now it is interesting that the other commandments are reiterated in the NT, but the admonition to observe the sabbath is not.

So Esaias and I agree on one thing. If the sabbath commandment is gone, or vanished, so are the others. Which brings up another key point in . . .

Hebrews 8

[13] In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

If the old covenant was ready to vanish away, some two thousand years ago, what are the chances that it is still hanging around today? Because if it was ready to vanish, that would mean all of the necessary conditions were met for it to vanish.

The old covenant is gone. NOt sure why you claim that I think it is not.

The old covenant was represented by the first tabernacle and you could not get into the second tabernacle if the first was still standing. So, the first tabernacle was removed as much as you can only get into the new covenant if the first is removed.

But if you think that the ten commandments are the old covenant, and claim that my belief that the nine are still in effect then I do not think the old passed away, you have to first prove that I believe the old covenant remains. I never said anything about the old covenant still being in effect, but directly the opposite. And when I said the nine are still in effect, I did not mean anything in the way that you claim I meant. I simply said murder is wrong as much as adultery, etc.

So if this old covenant, that has vanished away, doesn’t refer to the covenant known as the Ten Commandments, or the Ten Commandments known as the covenant, then pray tell what covenant is this verse referring to?

I never actually stated nine are in effect, as such. But I am not sure what you are proposing. What do you mean the Old Covenant in the form of the Ten Commandments passed away?

You agree that nine of the ten were reiterated by Jesus because they were not shadows. That's all that I meant by the fourth is changed into the spiritual rest. Esaias always said that I think one is abolished, but I never said that. I said the fourth is in effect spiritually since it was a foreshadow because they remain in what Jesus and the apostles presented.

The Old Covenant though is far more than the ten commandments. The Old Covenant is a body of covenant that was represented by Hagar and issued at Mount Sinai. It's everything that went forth from Mount Sinai, not just the ten commandments. It involved tabernacle/temple worship. Yes, you could say it is the ten commandments, because everything God gave additional to that was actually applications of the ten

It's more complex than saying that the ark was the ark of the covenant, therefore the ten commandments put inside the ark are the covenant, itself. It's true in one sense. The truth is that everything in the Law of 613 precepts are based on the Ten Commandments. The Ten commandments are the simple form and the rest of the law was all stemmed from them. So, everything Moses was given at Sinai stands for the ten. So, it's the same thing really.

Jesus broke it down further and said Love God and Love your neighbour as yourself. That is basically what the ten commandments are, and in turn, is basically what everything else in Leviticus and Deuteronomy and Exodus are.