Tony Spell has church in spite of the ban

[Ehud]

Originally Posted by Tithesmeister

Okay. What specifically is the difference in what you have said, and what I said? It appears to me that you have said the same thing.

While you are researching, tell us when the 501c3 designation was begun, and what happened before such designation was available to churches.

No. Churches are not automatically considered 501c3. Many people believe they are, but they are not. They are automatically tax exempt. Which is the case whether they are 501c3, or not.

You are making a distinction that doesn't exist. Churches are exempt from taxation under current law based on Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. If the church isn't exempt under these rules, they aren't exempt at all. In fact, if you have a church that isn't a 501(c)(3), you probably don't legally have a church. What you are actually referring to is the official recognition of that status, which is a whole process unto itself.

They apply to whom, for that designation?

They apply to the Secretary of State of the state they are geographically located in, Louisiana for Brother Spell. They are applying for the right to abandon their status as a separate entity from the state. They are begging (begging is maybe a bit strong verbiage here, but I’m making a point) for recognition of the fact that they are voluntarily giving up their status of separation from the state. I have NEVER heard of any church being turned down. The church of Scientology was initially, but they appealed and were granted status.

Again, this is incorrect. Official recognition of 501(c)(3) status is in the hands of the Internal Revenue Service. In this instance, you are referencing incorporation under state law. This does not make you part of the state, nor does it waive first amendment rights. It is simply the process to create a separate legal entity, as opposed to operating as an unincorporated association. In Illinois, there is no begging. If you send the money, you are created. I would be surprised if that isn't the case in all states, but I could certainly be wrong on that part.

So what happens when they are granted this status? They give up the status of separation, and agree to incorporate, under the laws of the State of Louisiana, in the case of Brother Spell. A corporation is a legal entity. Incorporated UNDER the laws of the state is a legal matter. The church that is incorporated under the laws of the state, are legally bound to obey the laws of that state that apply to such corporations.

That’s the condensed version, as I understand it. Some people are going to dispute this, no doubt, but I have studied it somewhat and I’m pretty sure this is accurate.

Being incorporated does make you a legally separate entity and subject to rights and obligations under state law, and also provides legal protections. However, none of that has any bearing on being tax exempt or a 501(c)(3). That question is a completely separate one.

While you are researching, tell us when the 501c3 designation was begun, and what happened before such designation was available to churches.

If I had to guess, I would say it began in the 1950s when the modern tax system was implemented, though I do not know for certain. Also, I do not know what was done prior, but I do know that it is irrelevant given we have a codified system to deal with in the present. Before 501(c)(3) existed, it could absolutely be said that a church could be tax exempt, but not a 501(c)(3). (Duh, right? Ha!) But as things stand today, a church being tax exempt and a church being a 501(c)(3) entity are one and the same for no other reason than it is the code section defining the exemption.