A covid forum?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I found out God’s love AFTER I was saved, by making mistakes and being forgiven. That is a powerful message to me. He stood by my side and lead me out of my mistakes by His Spirit. It was the most beautiful experience next to being baptized and filled with His Spirit!

We have MUCH to be thankful for and MUCH to look forward to!

Oh how He loves us! His grace, mercy and compassion are new every day. Thank you for sharing how His love was there for you in your hour of need, and how precious that experience was!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by n david

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;

So if you reconcile these two statements, it could read like this:

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High and if he keeps my commandments, he shall abide in my love under the shadow of the Almighty.

I think the above does pretty succinctly sum up just what we are trying to say here. This is not OSAS, but rather His love is a constant (thanks PO for bringing that out so well!).

Our love for Him, however, need to be shown to Him both by works and obedience, and when in obedience, His great love is shown to us working through us in mighty ways.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

So if you reconcile these two statements, it could read like this:

He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High and if he keeps my commandments, he shall abide in my love under the shadow of the Almighty.

I think the above does pretty succinctly sum up just what we are trying to say here. This is not OSAS, but rather His love is a constant (thanks PO for bringing that out so well!).

Our love for Him, however, need to be shown to Him both by works and obedience, and when in obedience, His great love is shown to us working through us in mighty ways.

This very true.

He is a God that does not change. Malachi 3:6 & James 1:17.

If He had need of being changed, He wouldn’t be perfect.

We are the ones that can change. It is our works and obedience that is important. He stands on His promises to us, just like He did the Israelites in Deuteronomy 28.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

We interrupt this program for an alert from the Emergency Doom and Gloom Broadcast System. Please stand by.

Abiding in His love means dwelling in His love. The love is owned by Him, it is HIS love, not our love. Our love originates from us and is directed toward Him. His love originates from Him and is directed toward us. If we keep His commandments, we will abide (dwell, remain) in His love. If we do NOT keep His commandments we will NOT abide (dwell, remain) in His love.

Just like a man tells his child "if you follow my rules you will abide in my house", meaning if the child does NOT follow the father's rules the child will not be living in the father's house.

There is nothing wrong with the correct and well-nigh perfect grammar of the KJV. There IS something wrong with incorrect theology and exegesis. Abiding in God's love does not mean grammatically the same as "being in love with God". It means exactly what it says: remaining in the love of God. Not our love for Him, but HIS love. Breaking His commandments removes a person from His love.

And "love" here is NOT AT ALL anything remotely close to "being in love". Being in love is a completely modern term referring to a combination of affection and sexual attraction. God's love is not some sappy boy-meets-girl style emotion. God's love is defined right here:

John 3:16 KJV
For God so loved the world,emoat he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God SO loved.... That does not say "loved the world so much that". It is says God SO loved the world that... The word "so" means "in this manner". It does NOT indicate a degree or amount, but a manner or mechanism. How did God love? He loved by giving the Son. God's love is not a mere emotion or feeling. It is an ACTION.

Our love toward Him is likewise:

John 14:21 KJV
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

John 14:23-24 KJV
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

God's love toward us is not manifested by feelings of "being in love". It is manifested by the blessings of grace and the gospel found in Christ. Our love towards God is not manifested in feelings of "being in love". It is manifested by our obedience to His instructions. Feelings are ultimately irrelevent to the subject.

Christianity has largely been polluted into an effeminate feelings based sappy sloppy-agape pietism focused on personal emotional catharsis. It is the fruit of Jezebel, the way of Balaam, it is the hallmark of Canaanite Baal worship. It is why Christianity has had practically zero impact on the world at large for about the last 50 years or so. It has become something for children, and silly women laden with sins led away by various lusts, and the fluffy-socks-wearing weak little manlets who are for all practical purposes spiritual catamites, who are all about "feeling love for God" while they refuse to actually love God Biblically. They worship their form of worship instead of worshipping God. They are "in love" with the idea of being "in love" but don't actually love the one they pretend to be "in love" with.

Their religion is bhakti yoga, emotional cathartic devotion to an object of affection, without much regard to what God Himself actually says on the subject (or any subject, actually). And all bhakti yoga is ultimately devotion to the "divine" Self masquerading as an external object or "god" or Teacher. Which means this type of Baal religion is idolatry of the self masquerading as devotion to "Jesus". A "Jesus" in one's own image and likeness. Your own... personal... Jesus... Someone who's there... Someone who cares...

Society has been turned into a mob of hysterical women regardless of their biological gender lookin for love in all the wrong places. And that's why tv preachers make phat cash on gullible hurting people. And that's why all of society, from the White House to the pepsi ads to the pulpits to the schools to the HR department to Hellyweird ALL teach everyone - men, women, boys, girls, and "others" - to be needy hurting emotional affection- and attention- starved desperate saps. Easily controlled, easily manipulated, easily merchandised (2 Peter 2:1-3).

But the one who LOVES GOD in the good old Bible way is one who isn't led or ruled by feelings, but by Thus Saith The LORD as it is written.

This concludes the Emergency Doom and Gloom System alert. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

King James version is not wrong. It's what people get from it by not being able to follow correctly how it reads in the passage.

We don't discover God's love by doing a commandment and watching the results. It's saying that so long as we continue to love God we will be keeping Commandments. It shows that we are. Love of God is Not earned by obeying the commands.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

King James version is not wrong. It's what people get from it by not being able to follow correctly how it reads in the passage.

We don't discover God's love by doing a commandment and watching the results. It's saying that so long as we continue to love God we will be keeping Commandments. It shows that we are. Love of God is Not earned by obeying the commands.

Yes!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

King James version is not wrong. It's what people get from it by not being able to follow correctly how it reads in the passage.

We don't discover God's love by doing a commandment and watching the results. It's saying that so long as we continue to love God we will be keeping Commandments. It shows that we are. Love of God is Not earned by obeying the commands.

You did say "... an example of the King James English throwing someone off." You did not say "... an example of someone misunderstanding English."

The verse in question says if we keep His commandments, we will abide (dwell, remain) in His love. A basic if-then statement. It is about abiding, not watching results and discovering anything.

It didn't say as long as we love God we will continue to keep His commands (although that is certainly true). It says as long as we keep His commands we abide in His love. You have the order reversed.

Of course, all that is in regards to one verse originally being discussed. I brought in some others that do indeed declare IF we love Him THEN we will obey Him. In fact, one declares plainly a cause-effect requirement: If we keep His commandments, THEN God will love us and manifest Himself to us and dwell with us, etc.

The problem a lot of folks have these days is they don't like the idea that love and obedience are inseperably connected. Yet, they are.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

You did say "... an example of the King James English throwing someone off." You did not say "... an example of someone misunderstanding English."

The verse in question says if we keep His commandments, we will abide (dwell, remain) in His love. A basic if-then statement. It is about abiding, not watching results and discovering anything.

It didn't say as long as we love God we will continue to keep His commands (although that is certainly true). It says as long as we keep His commands we abide in His love. You have the order reversed.

Of course, all that is in regards to one verse originally being discussed. I brought in some others that do indeed declare IF we love Him THEN we will obey Him. In fact, one declares plainly a cause-effect requirement: If we keep His commandments, THEN God will love us and manifest Himself to us and dwell with us, etc.

The problem a lot of folks have these days is they don't like the idea that love and obedience are inseperably connected. Yet, they are.

When the KING JAMES throws someone off, that does not mean it's the KING JAMES' fault. It's people who aren't able to properly follow what it says.

More later.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

When the KING JAMES throws someone off, that does not mean it's the KING JAMES' fault. It's people who aren't able to properly follow what it says.

More later.

It seems to me you are contradicting yourself. If X causes Y, it isn't X's fault???

The King James doesn't throw people off in this instance. People throw themselves off by not understanding what is being clearly said.

John 15:10 KJV
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

If... what? "If ye keep my commandments." Not "if ye abide in my love." The KJV isn't throwing anyone off.

[Esaias]

Verse 10. - If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love. This is the method and secret, the stimulus and proof, of abiding in the love of Christ. This is not exactly the converse (Westcott) of "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Doubtless there is a love which dictates obedience to the loved One's will. Our Lord here avers, however, something further, viz. that obedience issues in a higher love. The obedience here described is the outcome of love, but the power is thus gained to continue, dwell, in the Divine love, to abide, that is, in the full enjoyment and fullness of my Divine love to you. This is obvious from the confirmatory clause: Even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. The Lord kept the Father's commandment always, doing those things which please him, offering up his precious life, laying it down that he might take it again; and the consequence is that he then and there knew that he was filled with all the fullness of the Divine love. The very impressive line of thought pervades this passage, that what the Father was to him, that he would prove to his disciples. What the love of God was to the Christ, the love of Christ was to his disciples.

Pulpit Commentary

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It seems to me you are contradicting yourself. If X causes Y, it isn't X's fault???

The King James doesn't throw people off in this instance. People throw themselves off by not understanding what is being clearly said.

John 15:10 KJV
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

If... what? "If ye keep my commandments." Not "if ye abide in my love." The KJV isn't throwing anyone off.

If God says that nothing shall separate us from His love, then He can’t stop loving us. Therefore, I surmise that if I don’t keep His commandments, it is because I do not love Him.