"And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of....."
The word "name" here in greek is: "onoma"
Thayer's definition of "onoma":
The name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is aroused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one’s rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds etc.
Having said that, we are not merely talking about a five letter name here...rather, we refer to ALL that HE, for who HE is, represents...when we speak of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, we refer to all that Jesus represents....and when we just merely refer to Jesus, we still are referring to all that HE represents...
But some would love to think that what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19 was a cryptic message for only the learned to figure out and decipher, when all along, he leads into that command showing that he was referring to the authority He possesses as demonstrated in 28:18....
So, Mizpeh, I do think it is as clearly as I suggest....
Other than the absurd quip about some thinking there is a cryptic meaning in Mat 28:19 I agree here. This does not disagree with the Oneness view on this verse
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
being the one that made the funny.... sure. if a trinitarian wants to crack wise, then have at it. that doesnt change anything. God is still One. Jesus was still both God and Man.
More particularaly being that this is a Oneness board, then i will say things here among my brothers that i would not say in conversation with a trinitarian. Certainly not one with whom I am having a serious discussion with in an attempt to win them to the Lord.
speaking of things I would say here, (this is where I go all Epley on you)
I believe that the doctrine of the trinity is the devils single greatest weapon. It is delusion on the grandest scale and has caused more people to go to hell than any other thing that has ever come to us.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTULLOCK
******EXAMPLE COMING*********************
Fred in the OT is was wrong to eat unclean meat, right? And when showed the sheet full of meat He the things were unclean. God said do not call things unclean when I have made them clean. There are people that feel eating pork and others to still be wrong some see it as being ok. So which ones are right? The one that see it the old way or the new? Do the old ones see it as the new ones are going to hell?
It would be a misunderstanding of God now wants. The old timers would have a misconception that eating pork is wrong. When infact it is not. Does the devil use pork to send anyone to hell? The devil tries to twist God word, i.e. Adam and Eve. But to say that the devil will use the written word and trick people into going to being saved a certain way is crazy. Infact saying such is heresy itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
Let me say that I find it odd that you will not recognize the truth that Ferd has very rudimentarily posted here. That truth is that the devil has always used untruths to mislead humanity. It is what he does. The idea of a trinity hacks away at the very foundation of what and who God is. Of course the devil wants to bring confusion and misinformation into the doctrine of the Godhead. Tritheism acccomplishes this goal in a magnificant way.
Here, we have taken the most simple of biblical truths, which is laced throughout the entire canon, and twisted it into a mangled mess of theological confusion. The Shemah is the foundational truth of Judeo-Christian belief. Our God is ONE. Any attempt to divide His nature into categories defined as persons is futile and akin to blasphemy. There is only one person in God - the man Christ Jesus.
"Hath God said" is the most powerful weapon in the devil's aresnal. It places doubt in the heart of a believer. Doubt in God's word and doubt as to His very nature. The trinity is a "hath God said" issue. It asks the question "Is God who He says He is?" Do we believe His repeated claim of "no other beside me" or do we allow unbelief to crowd that Truth from our minds?
So of course the trinity is a damnable heresy. Of course the devil wants that doctrine propagated. How best to strike at the heart of the humanity/divinity relationship than to confuse humanity as to who God really is?
His word burns in my heart like a fire...Fire Fall Down
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Poster
J,
Why the problem with the mention of Jesus' name?
Do you believe baptism is necessary? Do you believe any words should be spoken over the baptized? If so, what words do you think should be spoken?
I am not sure what leads you to think I have a problem with the mention of his name....when I think it's the sweetest name I know for who HE is and what it REPRESENTS....
If your question really is "do I think baptism in itself is salvific" then I will undoubtedly say "No"...having said that, I am not suggesting we are not to obey the command to be baptized.
In the same manner, we are commanded to partake in the Lord's Supper....yet, it is not for the purpose of salvation....
....quid pro quo... if you believe water baptism is salvific, do you also believe partaking in the Lord's Supper is salvific? If your answer is no that the Lord's Supper is not salvific, then I ask you "why not"?
I am not sure what leads you to think I have a problem with the mention of his name....when I think it's the sweetest name I know for who HE is and what it REPRESENTS....
If your question really is "do I think baptism in itself is salvific" then I will undoubtedly say "No"...having said that, I am not suggesting we are not to obey the command to be baptized.
In the same manner, we are commanded to partake in the Lord's Supper....yet, it is not for the purpose of salvation....
....quid pro quo... if you believe water baptism is salvific, do you also believe partaking in the Lord's Supper is salvific? If your answer is no that the Lord's Supper is not salvific, then I ask you "why not"?
What do you think should be pronounced over those who do get baptized?
I am not sure what leads you to think I have a problem with the mention of his name....when I think it's the sweetest name I know for who HE is and what it REPRESENTS....
If your question really is "do I think baptism in itself is salvific" then I will undoubtedly say "No"...having said that, I am not suggesting we are not to obey the command to be baptized.
In the same manner, we are commanded to partake in the Lord's Supper....yet, it is not for the purpose of salvation....
....quid pro quo... if you believe water baptism is salvific, do you also believe partaking in the Lord's Supper is salvific? If your answer is no that the Lord's Supper is not salvific, then I ask you "why not"?
because when asked what one needs to do, Peter did not say "take the Lords supper"
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name"
....in doing so, we can all stop the fighting... [wink wink]
aren't those two different authorities though? If name means authority you are either invoking two contradictory authorities or you are being redundant. oh there is that word again!
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
"I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name"
....in doing so, we can all stop the fighting... [wink wink]
Given the fact that much of modern Christendom is mired in the trinitarian doctrine, and that the triune formula is identified with that doctrine, this represents a step back toward error and is an unacceptable compromise.
A trinitrian coming toward an understanding of the Mighty God in Christ using this hybrid and unscriptural formula might be one thing; but for a person who knows Truth to advocate such a thing is moving back toward darkness.
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