The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by rrford

But is it optional for salvation or not? Can one be saved without it?

Define your it, the confusion is in the details.

[Brett Prince]

The official observer stands slack-jawed, but uncompromised...

I still believe what I believe.

This is the most interesting thread I have seen on here, the in-between, NFCF, and maybe FCF--for a long while.

Bravo, CS. Bravo, TB. Bravo DA. Thanks for making interesting (and you others that I didn't mention.)

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Felicity ....No one has ever said it's an optional experience ... what is in question is it's presentation ....

I heard it preached as salvational and non-salvational.

I was just hungry for all of God I could get and I wanted "the Holy Ghost" as we always called it. I never believed even sitting under a PAJC believing pastor and ministering in the UPCI for almost 25 years that it was necessary for regeneration or salvation.

I tried to believe it. I worked at it. I studied Scripture and listened to the most skillful with the Word present that doctrinal view but never could I get it to mesh with scripture or experience.

I'm still looking for someone to convince me. I have an open mind and heart. And why not? There would be no sense in closing my mind to this if it is truth. I simply cannot see where it is and it has nothing to do with stubborn proud refusal to believe or accept that it is truth..

I've sat in meeting after meeting through the years.....church, campmeetings, conferences, teaching seminars, read books, read and pored over and through Scripture, sat and talked to others who hold that view and sought God but never has my mind or heart been satisfied with the teaching that every man and woman who has never spoken in tongues i.e. received a Spirit baptism will spend eternity in hell in spite of their love for God, and their faith in Him and living for Him to the best of their ability and their natures and hearts having been regenerated and changed through the power and Spirit of Almighty God.

I'm still open.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by Felicity

I heard it preached as salvational and non-salvational.

I was just hungry for all of God I could get and I wanted "the Holy Ghost" as we always called it. I never believed even sitting under a PAJC believing pastor and ministering in the UPCI for almost 25 years that it was necessary for regeneration or salvation.

I tried to believe it. I worked at it. I studied Scripture and listened to the most skillful with the Word present that doctrinal view but never could I get it to mesh with scripture or experience.

I'm still looking for someone to convince me. I have an open mind and heart. And why not? There would be no sense in closing my mind to this if it is truth. I simply cannot see where it is and it has nothing to do with stubborn proud refusal to believe or accept that it is truth..

I've sat in meeting after meeting through the years.....church, campmeetings, conferences, teaching seminars, read books, read and pored over and through Scripture, sat and talked to others who hold that view and sought God but never has my mind or heart been satisfied with the teaching that every man and woman who has never spoken in tongues i.e. received a Spirit baptism will spend eternity in hell in spite of their love for God, and their faith in Him and living for Him to the best of their ability and their natures and hearts having been regenerated and changed through the power and Spirit of Almighty God.

I'm still open.

My sister, Kathy, is married to a Southern Baptist preacher. They consider themselves Bapticostal, and these arguments can be maddening at times.

She and her husband believe much like you, Felicity. She will accept that the bible teaches baptism in Jesus' Name, and of course most Christians believe repentance is necessary. Where we have a parting of ways is on the necessity of baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

This discussion makes me feel like I'm involved in one of those long family debates, although this debate has been much more civil.

[Steve Epley]

Good discussion carry on.


Faith only folks are confused about what faith is. Their faith requires nothing and does nothing that is not Biblical faith.
Read the faith chapter Hebrews 11 faith was active not passive.

Three steppers are confused as to what faith MEANS to "faith only" people.... or at least this 'faith only' person.



It does not mean mental ascent and then sit on your butt until you die or 'the rapture' comes.


Wait a minute...

I got sucked in again... ugh...

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Good discussion carry on.

Thanks for your permission. lol

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Good discussion carry on.


Faith only folks are confused about what faith is. Their faith requires nothing and does nothing that is not Biblical faith.
Read the faith chapter Hebrews 11 faith was active not passive.

Elder E...I don't know anyone who is a 'faith only' believer...

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Barb

Elder E...I don't know anyone who is a 'faith only' believer...

Barb,

With all respect, they are thicker than hair on a dog's back.

Faith + nothing=salvation.

They don't like to identify themselves as such usually, but when you pin them down, that is what it amounts to.

As deeply as it pains you to acknowledge it, there are some folks who are wrong in their doctrine.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Barb,

With all respect, they are thicker than hair on a dog's back.

Faith + nothing=salvation.

They don't like to identify themselves as such usually, but when you pin them down, that is what it amounts to.

As deeply as it pains you to acknowledge it, there are some folks who are wrong in their doctrine.

With utmost respect to you, Elder, I repeat that I know no one who is 'faith only'...

I'm not saying they don't exist, I'm just saying that I don't know them.