POA Use Idol Worship at Campmeeting?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

It is refreshing to hear you say this. Pentecost in general has become drunk on entertainment and religious fads. Old fashioned church is a thing of the past. Crowd response has taken the place of annointed life changing preaching that convicts. Deep moves of the the Spirit would be a strange event in most Pentecostal circles today. The preaching is ' a mile wide and and inch deep.' Look what it is producing.

Elder,

You have been around a lot longer than I have, so I know that your experience is much more than mine. But just in my short 41 years of life growing up in the church, I have witnessed what I can only describe as the departure of the glory of God from the Apostolic church in America. I do not think it is totally gone. At least I pray it isn't. Even in the more conservative churches, there is many times something missing of a depth within the Spirit. I do not say this as a charge. I weep because of it. I feel like something has left us of the presence of God, and it seems that so many do did not notice its departure. Few will admit it. Most will deny it. I find that my heart is stirred though to continue to seek after it, least I come short of a promise of entering his rest.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brother Price

I will say this.

I know of other good men who have expressed the same discernment about certain meetings, and they were right on. We think because it is a UPCI Camp, that it cannot be under the influence of other spirits. That is wrong. IN fact, look at Israel of old. There was Elijah speaking on the truth, and the 450 Baal prophets and the 400 Asherah prophets. Israel thought they were doing fine. But, they were deceived.

The Church has been under siege for a long time. Prophets have arose, and those under use of the prophetic gifts have spoken, and the church world stops up their ears, and heed only to those working under a divining spirit, seeking a good word to make them feel good and tell them that they are all right.



Thank God for men willing to speak what they discern. It is not always popular, but it is always timely. And, Lord, if it helps my soul to be saved, and helps me to preach and teach the people the right, then so be it.

There it is again...I did not see BS identify what he meant by spirits, but perhaps you will. What exactly do you mean that an entire camp is under the influence of other spirits? Are you saying these men of God are really men of the Devil? How can you prove that? All we have is someones assertion and those assertions go woefully unsubstantiated, which is unbiblical. If such serious accusations are going to be made they should be backed up with evidence.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Thanks HO, Bro. Price, St Matt and others here that see and understand what was actually said rather than all of this intentional twisting of words. Shame on the rest of you. That is not even Christian to do so.

I am a little surprised that I would even open such an idiot thread as this, especially with such a title.

Man alive!

I can't believe this. This will be my one and only post here on this thread. The heathern are raging and the people are imagining vain things. Let 'em have at it. Besides, my time is greatly limited.

Anyway, for all of you that are going to quote me, please quote me correctly. Example: I never said anyone at the La Camp was in demonic worship. I did not say that POA was in demonic worship nor did I say that any of their songs were demonic worship.

But then, regardless of what was actually said, it matters naught. You will just make up things and pretent that I said it anyway. Shame on you. That is not even Christian to do that.

Music is a language of the spirit world. It matters little concerning the wonderful words put in a song if the sound is not right. Sooner or later, given enough time, the words will begin to conform to the sound.

If the devil can give us his sound in the church, it is only a matter of time before he gives us his words. The words will eventually align to the sound. We must not follow the pied piper to destruction.

I know that some of you do not understand what I am saying here, as evidenced from the remarks that I've read. It is truly sad, giving me little hope for the future of the Apolstolic movement if this sentiment becomes widespread and total.

When Evan Roberts was asked if England could possibly have revival, he recognized the importance of the right sound. He said, "Can they sing?"

Psa 89:15, "Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk O Lord, in the light of thy countenance."

There are some people that do not know the joyful sound. There are some who do. If you do not know the joyful sound of the Spirit, I would like to know that you will seek to know it with ears atuned to the sound of the Spirit. There is the sound of the Dove and there is the sound of the Crow. Do you know the difference?

The devil wants to steal our music. Before he was cast down from the realms of light, he was the chief musician there. He lost his preeminisence in that realm. He has been jealous over God's heavenly sound desiring to capture it to destroy it ever since his downfall.

vs 16: "In thy name shall they (who know the joyful sound) rejoice all the day: and in thy righteousness shall they (who know the joyful sound) be exalted."

If you have not been to the top of the mountain to behold the glory of the Lord, I can certainly understand how this might be somewhat confused for you. I don't blame you. I suppose I would be confused too. But, I've been there. I heard the sound. I know the difference.

vs 17, "For thou art the glory of their (who know the joyful sound) strength: and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted."

Regardless how good the words of a song, if shrouded within the sound of unsanctified music born of unconsecrated spirits that has never climbed the mountain to the top to see the glory of the Lord, the sound is wrong.

Want me to explain how this is so? It would be imposible to do in words. If you can't tell sanctified music born of consecrated spirits and what is not, I am afraid that you have never truly become an eyewitness of His majesty and beheld His glory behind the veil.

Has the evening shades so fallen that there is little light left anymore? I am heartened only by the words of the Prophet so long ago, "...in the evening time there shall be light."

Ok, now considering what you said here about the DEVIL and Music, what exactly WAS your point concerning the music of POA if it was not to imply the Devil had something to do with it? Your words are so confusing where as on the one hand you deny suggesting or hinting the Devil is involved and then you sound as if you are saying exactly that and then rather than just being very clear in explanation to those that ask, you resport to pejoratives and insults calling everyone that asks a heathen?

[Polaris]

What is wrong with that, My dear brother, is that the man who wrote the song thinks God is three persons, and by saying "the Godhead, three in one, Father, Spirit, Son", he has in mind the triune God doctrine of three persons in the Godhead. And the PENTECOSTALS OF ALEXANDRIA sang THIS at the LA CAMPMEETING????????????????? I'm shocked. I'm floored. Somebody tell me that this is all one big mistake...please!

Originally Posted by NLYP

YES WE DO sing holy holy holy........"God in Christ Jesus...Blessed Diety"!

See here lies the problem....WE have been so anto trinity that we dont recognize Biblical when we see it!!!!

"The Godhead, three in one...Father, Spirit, Son"

Tell me what is not Biblical about that, and then I will give you scripture showing you how wrong you are!

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Polaris

What is wrong with that, My dear brother, is that the man who wrote the song thinks God is three persons, and by saying "the Godhead, three in one, Father, Spirit, Son", he has in mind the triune God doctrine of three persons in the Godhead. And the PENTECOSTALS OF ALEXANDRIA sang THIS at the LA CAMPMEETING????????????????? I'm shocked. I'm floored. Somebody tell me that this is all one big mistake...please!

Sad but true. It is sung at many UPCI churches.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Polaris

What is wrong with that, My dear brother, is that the man who wrote the song thinks God is three persons, and by saying "the Godhead, three in one, Father, Spirit, Son", he has in mind the triune God doctrine of three persons in the Godhead. And the PENTECOSTALS OF ALEXANDRIA sang THIS at the LA CAMPMEETING????????????????? I'm shocked. I'm floored. Somebody tell me that this is all one big mistake...please!

Godhead three in one to a Trinitarian might mean three persons but to Oneness it usually means three manifestations. Why is it ok to use the KJV, translated by Trinitarians, which has 1john 5:7, which most Trinitarians interpret to mean three persons.....

Even though we are told this verse is not even in the original, yet the UPC has not banned this book from use by Apostolics

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sad but true. It is sung at many UPCI churches.

MANY Trinitarians songs are sung in MOST UPC churches and have been for many many years. Our UPCI issued song book contains many many songs written by Trinitarians

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Godhead three in one to a Trinitarian might mean three persons but to Oneness it usually means three manifestations. Why is it ok to use the KJV, translated by Trinitarians, which has 1john 5:7, which most Trinitarians interpret to mean three persons.....

Even though we are told this verse is not even in the original, yet the UPC has not banned this book from use by Apostolics

But Prax,

It is not even three manifestations in one. The Word IS Jesus, not just dwelling IN him.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

MANY Trinitarians songs are sung in MOST UPC churches and have been for many many years. Our UPCI issued song book contains many many songs written by Trinitarians

The point is not that a song is written by a trinitarian, but whether a song as trinitarian doctrine within it being sung in UPCI churches. Big difference to me. I can sing a song written by an atheist if it praises Jesus. But to sing a song that claims that the godhead is 3 in 1 is trinitarian false doctrine from my understanding, and I will not sing it.

[Polaris]

So they sang an overtly, completely blatant Trinitarian song at a major Oneness-church camp meeting, and people are wondering what the big deal is. This is awful. Just when I think I've heard it all.... Elder G. T. Haywood wrote some of our best-loved hymns. Have you ever noticed that the old AOG hymnbooks don't contain them? They also don't contain "The Water Way" or "All in Him". Naturally, they excluded them because they came out of the Oneness camp. Did you ever notice that the Trinitarians are not making changes in THEIR position to drift over toward OUR camp?

There has been a subtle trend in recent years to water down our doctrine, to "work for changes", and to try to play down the differences between Trinitarian and Oneness theology. If your view of the Godhead doesn't matter, then it also doesn't matter how you baptize...so the Apostolic plan of salvation isn't important anymore, either. Throw away standards of holiness while you're at it, too, just like they did. Next thing you know, we're all one big happy "church" where you can believe any way you want, be baptized any way you want, and nothing matters any more.

So where is this coming from? Of all of the many wonderful songs written and recorded in Apostolic Pentecost, why on earth would they take an overtly trinitarian song and perform it at a major Oneness camp meeting? I'm not making any accusations, but it does raise a question--does somebody have an agenda? Where are the elders? Who's minding the store? Just what WAS the spirit that Bro. Strange was sensing, and why aren't more people bothered by it? (I'm sure that this one song wasn't the only thing on his mind, but it might be indicative of a disturbing trend.)

Does anybody ever wonder how all of this affects the young people? They're going to grow up thinking, "what difference does it make? Trinity...Oneness...we're all saying the same thing, just using different ways to express it". Subtle, innocent-looking changes today snowball into major shifts tomorrow. Again, does it never occur to anyone that the trinitarians aren't emulating us and making subtle moves in OUR direction? THEY need what WE have...not the other way around. I'm deeply grieved.

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Sad but true. It is sung at many UPCI churches.