Rules and Spirit

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

If I discussed things with church people as openly as I discuss them here I would probably be hated by the pastor...LOL

LOL! Lord, I want to comment!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

It makes this basic point....

"Men will not find further truth so long as their current vocation is reliant upon their current understanding."

That is a great statement. Some folks hate the idea of change so much, since it is a sort of work that requires effort, that they simply learn to live with their shortcomings and enjoy far less than what they could. So they learn to settle with their current vocation.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is a great statement. Some folks hate the idea of change so much, since it is a sort of work that requires effort, that they simply learn to live with their shortcomings and enjoy far less than what they could. So they learn to settle with their current vocation.

I agree, Brother Blume,
If you start getting everyone involved in studying and questioning than you have to stay ahead. It's easier to just live with your shortcomings, for most people.

I don't say that as a slam against the ministry. I believe that is just a large part of human nature, which is laziness. Don't upset the status quo. It's easier to just ride along. And for the one upsetting the status quo, they can be made to feel out of place and alone. Some don't think it's worth the trouble.

Maybe there is comfort in Forum posting, after all. LOL!

[Falla39]

This is a great thread and some great posts!

Thanks to all who contributors. I love the dialogue!

Blessings,

Falla39

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree. Slow is sometimes frustrating.

I don't quite understand your first sentence. Could you come again on that? Thanks.

Sorry.... don't know where that came from.... LOL

I think that there are ministers and leaders that are uncomfortable with navigating toward spiritual depths. Some might fear a loss of control. Some may have had people live unbalanced.... who knows.

I think that most "saints" get to a certain depth in the Spirit and then settle. Unless prodding and encouragement happens, they will probably stay there.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DEAK

Sorry.... don't know where that came from.... LOL

I think that there are ministers and leaders that are uncomfortable with navigating toward spiritual depths. Some might fear a loss of control. Some may have had people live unbalanced.... who knows.

I think that most "saints" get to a certain depth in the Spirit and then settle. Unless prodding and encouragement happens, they will probably stay there.

I agree. Good post. On the worst carnal level, Michael Phelp's post rings some truth in it.

Perhaps one of the biggest challenges of pastoring is using the current model of "church" to accomplish the call.

Too many just show up - and that is the level of their commitment. There are those that want to grow and those that want to take up space. It is a challenge to minister to both.

So many want you to think for them. I refuse to do it .....

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by DEAK

Perhaps one of the biggest challenges of pastoring is using the current model of "church" to accomplish the call.

Too many just show up - and that is the level of their commitment. There are those that want to grow and those that want to take up space. It is a challenge to minister to both.

So many want you to think for them. I refuse to do it .....

I think that much of the commitment level issues are simply a consequence of the model.

A church model where hundreds drive from their homes to one location and sit while one man delivers the word to them from God would seem, in and of itself, to foster such a mindset.

Perhaps something is wrong with the model... perhaps this is where the "strength" of small groups comes into play.

I have noticed that when someone is employed in the Kingdom that they are more likely to carry a genuine burden for the ministry to move forward, pray and seek the mind of God, work in harmony with the ministry.

I think that the consumer oriented culture that we live in has affected people's approach to church, and other expressions of serving God. "What's in it for me?" seems to be an undisclosed question in the hearts of church goers.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I think that much of the commitment level issues are simply a consequence of the model.

A church model where hundreds drive from their homes to one location and sit while one man delivers the word to them from God would seem, in and of itself, to foster such a mindset.

I think that would still be a leadership choice.

Originally Posted by DEAK

Perhaps something is wrong with the model... perhaps this is where the "strength" of small groups comes into play.

I have noticed that when someone is employed in the Kingdom that they are more likely to carry a genuine burden for the ministry to move forward, pray and seek the mind of God, work in harmony with the ministry.

I think that the consumer oriented culture that we live in has affected people's approach to church, and other expressions of serving God. "What's in it for me?" seems to be an undisclosed question in the hearts of church goers.

I think if you have a large church and break it up by having some "cottage" type meetings you could still make a success of it.

You are so right about the consumer oriented culture on influencing people to a great degree, but I think good teaching would help that to an extent.

I'm thinking, overall, that you will only be reaching a certain percentage in any church as I've heard that, normally, you will only get 25% loyal cooperation no matter the size of the congregation. Looking back over the years, I have to agree with that.

I'm geared up for our "cottage" meeting tonight! My husband is in charge of this and does a great job!