Calling all PAJCers: When does Justification and Remission Happen?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Elder ... do you not see the major flaws in your theology you have asserted this evening that the righteous are not rapture ready.

Were the 5 foolish VIRGINS????????????????????????

Also Jesus talking about the Devil going out of a person and returning finding the vessel swept, clean and EMPTY and he came back. Clean but empty is NOT enough.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Matt are the righteous not rapture ready????

I have already answered you, Only those that have repented of their sins, been water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of those sins (justified), and received the gift of the Holy Ghost are ready to meet the Lord. If you do not have the gift of the Holy Ghost, you are not HIS.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Were the 5 foolish VIRGINS????????????????????????

Also Jesus talking about the Devil going out of a person and returning finding the vessel swept, clean and EMPTY and he came back. Clean but empty is NOT enough.

[stmatthew]

Daniel, do you believe that everyone receives the gift of the Spirit (the promise) at repentance before baptism?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I have already answered you, Only those that have repented of their sins, been water baptized in Jesus name for the remission of those sins (justified), and received the gift of the Holy Ghost are ready to meet the Lord. If you do not have the gift of the Holy Ghost, you are not HIS.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Daniel, do you believe that everyone receives the gift of the Spirit (the promise) at repentance before baptism?

Not sure what your real question is ... are you asking if I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost before I was water baptized ... yes ... I was FILLED BUT I GUESS I WASNT CLEAN LIKE MY BROTHER EPLEY SO ELOQUENTLY POINTED OUT when he used the 10 virgins example.

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

So now we receive the the Holy Ghost 2 times. Once when we repent, and the next time when we receive the GIFT of the SPIRIT which is the PROMISE.

You are born again at repentance when you place your faith in Jesus Christ and trust that his sacrifice on the cross is enough to wash away your sins...the baptism is for empowerment among other things...a wonderful experience for the Believer!

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Were the 5 foolish VIRGINS????????????????????????

Also Jesus talking about the Devil going out of a person and returning finding the vessel swept, clean and EMPTY and he came back. Clean but empty is NOT enough.

That is a distortion of what Jesus is implying....when Jesus spoke about devils going out of a person he was referring to an evil generation...we're talking about Saints of God here, bro.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Not sure what your real question is ... are you asking if I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost before I was water baptized ... yes ... I was FILLED BUT I GUESS I WASNT CLEAN LIKE MY BROTHER EPLEY SO ELOQUENTLY POINTED OUT when he used the 10 virgins example.

Originally Posted by J-Roc

You are born again at repentance when you place your faith in Jesus Christ and trust that his sacrifice on the cross is enough to wash away your sins...the baptism is for empowerment among other things...a wonderful experience for the Believer!

How do you guys reconcile your thoughts with Acts 2:38 where it says that one repents, is water baptised, and receives the gift (not Baptized as you believe 2 different works) of the Spirit, and then labels this gift the Promise.

Since this scripture conveys the idea that everyone does not receive this gift or promise of the Spirit at repentance, and that most receive this gift after water baptism, would not this mean that everyone is not born again when they repent?

[stmatthew]

I may have confused you with my post, so let me ask this, when does one receive the gift or promise of the Spirit?