The Mother Harlot

The book of Revelation is not calling into account ancient history. It seems that the preterist are hung up on ancient history while totally discrediting the message found in the N.T. to the NEW TESTAMENT church.

It seems that they are hung up on old ancient Jerusalem that was already cut off, rejected and no longer part of God's plan at the time of the writings of the NEW TESTAMENT to the NEW TESTAMENT church.

The message of Revelation was to the New Testament church of all ages, including the N.T. church of the 21st century. Otherwise, let us just tear out the part that is no longer addresses our need today. But they want to make it just a history account. How awful!

The book of Revelation was written to the seven churches of Asia, being the whole of all N.T. Churches in the complex. Whatever church you are a part of today, you may find the message of Jesus to your church within those messages. Most are called on to repent. Everything in revelation from there on is a result or consequence of what is done with the message to the church. To repent or not to repent is the question. Consequences and/or rewards are noted depending on reception of the message of Jesus to his church.

The matter of O.T. prophets mixed in are a ruse to divert from the message that God would have have us to hear concerning his church. N.T. church...not what is about something already dead.

[Falla39]

If there was a woman (harlot), USING a man who had taken over the

territory in which she lived, and she wanted vengenance to

get rid of some powerful people, who also was in that territory,

if she convinced this man (beast) to kill these powerful people,

and he (beast) did kill these people, who really killed them. Was

she, the woman (harlot), riding the (beast) until they were killed.

Was she innocent! Did the man (beast) realizing he had been USED

to do her dirty work, turn on her and with other nations(armies),meet

at a place and come against her, (after the people that Jesus had

warned), saw these armies,( which turned back briefly), giving them

time to escape, came back and destroyed the woman (city) and

her temple (which had started out as the house of God, but became

something else). Could what started out as the church, could it be-

come something else today and God would destroy it.) Could this be

compared also to the story of Esther and her people.

I remember a song the church sung when I was a young

girl:

There's a God who's standing at heaven's door. He's
looking this universe ore. And He sees each mortal with
His searching Eye. You can't do wrong and get by.

Cho.
You can't do wrong and get by. No matter how much you
may try. Nothing hidden can be, Everything He doeth see.
You can't do wrong and get by.

Now we are each responsible to know and learn what pleases

Him and what do not please Him. I do not want to take a chance

on DIS-pleasing Him in any way. I fear Him as a loving Father who

only cares what is best for me. I trust Him to lead me and guide me,

even unto death. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, also

of knowledge and of understanding. The fear of man bringeth a snare,

(a trap). In what way am I talking about pleasing Him!! Anything, any-

time, any place! Whatever, where ever, whenever! In ALL thy ways

acknowledge HIM and HE shall direct thy paths!!! Not my will but

THINE be done!

Blessings,

Falla39

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

The message of Revelation was to the New Testament church of all ages, including the N.T. church of the 21st century. Otherwise, let us just tear out the part that is no longer addresses our need today. But they want to make it just a history account. How awful!

With your words in mind, what about Jesus' birth? Is it now ancient prophecy that has no meaning today? What about Jesus' crucifixion? Is it still to come or already fulfilled? If it is now history, does it have anything to do with us today? I could go on and on, but Paul summed up such issues when he wrote: "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope" (Romans 15:4).

Brother Strange, you know that fulfilled prophecy authenticates Truth. This is what the New Testament is filled with when confirming the validity of Jesus being the true Messiah. How would these type fulfillments be any different than what is being written here about the book of Revelation?

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

The book of Revelation is not calling into account ancient history. It seems that the preterist are hung up on ancient history while totally discrediting the message found in the N.T. to the NEW TESTAMENT church.

It seems that they are hung up on old ancient Jerusalem that was already cut off, rejected and no longer part of God's plan at the time of the writings of the NEW TESTAMENT to the NEW TESTAMENT church.

The message of Revelation was to the New Testament church of all ages, including the N.T. church of the 21st century. Otherwise, let us just tear out the part that is no longer addresses our need today. But they want to make it just a history account. How awful!

The book of Revelation was written to the seven churches of Asia, being the whole of all N.T. Churches in the complex. Whatever church you are a part of today, you may find the message of Jesus to your church within those messages. Most are called on to repent. Everything in revelation from there on is a result or consequence of what is done with the message to the church. To repent or not to repent is the question. Consequences and/or rewards are noted depending on reception of the message of Jesus to his church.

The matter of O.T. prophets mixed in are a ruse to divert from the message that God would have have us to hear concerning his church. N.T. church...not what is about something already dead.

This is so.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

With your words in mind, what about Jesus' birth? Is it now ancient prophecy that has no meaning today? What about Jesus' crucifixion? Is it still to come or already fulfilled? If it is now history, does it have anything to do with us today? I could go on and on, but Paul summed up such issues when he wrote: "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope" (Romans 15:4).

Brother Strange, you know that fulfilled prophecy authenticates Truth. This is what the New Testament is filled with when confirming the validity of Jesus being the true Messiah. How would these type fulfillments be any different than what is being written here about the book of Revelation?

What Elder Strange is saying prophecy is NOT a backward look(unless specificly named) but a FORWARD look. The prophets you mentioned were killed in the OT. These prophets are NT prophets and saints.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

The book of Revelation is not calling into account ancient history. It seems that the preterist are hung up on ancient history while totally discrediting the message found in the N.T. to the NEW TESTAMENT church.

It seems that they are hung up on old ancient Jerusalem that was already cut off, rejected and no longer part of God's plan at the time of the writings of the NEW TESTAMENT to the NEW TESTAMENT church.

The message of Revelation was to the New Testament church of all ages, including the N.T. church of the 21st century. Otherwise, let us just tear out the part that is no longer addresses our need today. But they want to make it just a history account. How awful!

The book of Revelation was written to the seven churches of Asia, being the whole of all N.T. Churches in the complex. Whatever church you are a part of today, you may find the message of Jesus to your church within those messages. Most are called on to repent. Everything in revelation from there on is a result or consequence of what is done with the message to the church. To repent or not to repent is the question. Consequences and/or rewards are noted depending on reception of the message of Jesus to his church.

The matter of O.T. prophets mixed in are a ruse to divert from the message that God would have have us to hear concerning his church. N.T. church...not what is about something already dead.

Brother Strange,
It is very disconcerting to me that when we pose questions about Revelation we are tagged as Preterist.

Why?

Digging puts out a couple of scripture references on who is desolate and who killed the prophets, which is also gone over in the same manner in Revelation and now he's Preterist?

I'm Preterist?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are actually implying or saying?

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

What Elder Strange is saying prophecy is NOT a backward look(unless specificly named) but a FORWARD look. The prophets you mentioned were killed in the OT. These prophets are NT prophets and saints.

Jesus was an Old Testament prophet?

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Brother Strange,
It is very disconcerting to me that when we pose questions about Revelation we are tagged as Preterist.

Why?

Digging puts out a couple of scripture references on who is desolate and who killed the prophets, which is also gone over in the same manner in Revelation and now he's Preterist?

I'm Preterist?

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you are actually implying or saying?

Digging posted a clear Preterist Post, hawking the very same things that any good preterist will hawk.

Then in post 4 on page one you agreed with him calling it a good post. You said:

Good post, Digging! I have never believed that the RCC has been nor ever will be the Harlot.

This is also what the preterist believe. They don't believe it is the RCC either. They believe that the Mother of Harlots is Old Jerusalem

The assumption was natural, based on your words.

Don't be disconcerted though. No disconcerted person ever lived past 40.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Digging posted a clear Preterist Post, hawking the very same things that any good preterist will hawk.

Then in post 4 on page one you agreed with him calling it a good post. You said:



This is also what the preterist believe. They don't believe it is the RCC either. They believe that the Mother of Harlots is Old Jerusalem

The assumption was natural, based on your words.

Don't be disconcerted though. No disconcerted person ever lived past 40.

I agreed that his studies in
Matthew 23:31-38
Luke 13:33-35
Rev. 17:5-6
Rev. 18:1-2,4,20,24
seem to correlate in some way.

I was a staunch Catholic for 22 years. I'm telling you when I was Drum Major for our High School band I knelt by the goal post, did the sign of the cross and prayed! Looking back on that, I just don't see what they have to do with anything at all. I don't see the importance.

Billy Graham has been just as important in world affairs, for the Baptists, as the pope has been for the Catholic Church. That's just the way I see it.

I'm also tired of hearing every little gadget that comes along might be the Mark of the Beast. It's just seems silly and superstitious.

I see some truth and some things that don't seem to pan out in all views.

So, that's where I'm at on prophecy and tend to view it as St. Matt - a carnal minded system.

[QUOTE=Lost and Found;214190]With your words in mind, what about Jesus' birth? Is it now ancient prophecy that has no meaning today? What about Jesus' crucifixion? Is it still to come or already fulfilled? If it is now history, does it have anything to do with us today? I could go on and on, but Paul summed up such issues when he wrote: "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope" (Romans 15:4).

Notice the word, "aforetime."

What WAS written AFORETIME was indeed for our learning. Those things written under the law and before, were written long before Revelation was written. Indeed those O.T. scriptures was a school master that led us to Christ. Those scriptures dealt with a natural people in a natural land, with natural laws written on natural stone spoken to natural ears...all natural. Those things were ensamples:

1Cr 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;


1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


1Cr 10:5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.


1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.


1Cr 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.


1Cr 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.


1Cr 10:9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.


1Cr 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.


1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Brother Strange, you know that fulfilled prophecy authenticates Truth. This is what the New Testament is filled with when confirming the validity of Jesus being the true Messiah. How would these type fulfillments be any different than what is being written here about the book of Revelation?

The birth of Jesus is indeed the fulfillment of prophecy.

Yet, the Word of Prophecy, like all of the remaining Word of God must be rightly divided...laying what is natural along with what is natural and spiritual along what is spiritual. Rightly dividing the Word of truth is more than assuming that Revelation is about old Jerusalem simply because Jesus spoke concerning prophets in the gospels.