Firearms Refresher Course

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

It must be known that I believe that Jesus would have me to love my enemy, pray for them that despitefully uses me, do good to them that would do me evil.

Stopping a criminal in his tracts that is intent on doing my family harm can have a life altering affect upon him, both physically and spiritually too. I will pray for him, I will render good for evil and I will also show my love for him too. Meanwhile, the dude is NOT going to harm my family.

Dear Elder Strange:

This is puzzling to me, because I wasn't raised in the Church and do not understand how myself who used weapons and fists in altercations prior to being converted can understand those who have been in the church longer than I approve of the use of deadly force?

I was able to walk away from altercations when I was in the world and cannot understand why Christians (who have the Holy Ghost) are unable to do the same through the power of God.

We are the same people who cast out demons so why doesn't this same power work with an attacker?

Jesus speaks of turning the cheek, carrying soldier’s pack, and blessing an enemy who would want to kill us. How are we to modify these scriptures to fit our own situation? Are we not trusting God to deliver us? How did the first century preachers encourage the saints who were being hunted down by the Romans that threw them to lions? Did the first century Christian preachers teach those people to retaliate against their attackers?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Why won't anybody answer this?

What did the fathers during Saul of Tarsus’ persecution do to protect their families? Where these men bad husbands?

Please, show one place where Jesus or His apostles said it is okay for a Christian to physically retaliate.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Then are you saying that you would be able to teach your position by using the New Testament? I'm not asking you where it doesn't say something I'm asking you to tell me where it does say you can use deadly force to protect yourself and family.

Lord bless you Elder and protect your family.

In Jesus Name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Brother Ben, you know that I love and highly admire you for many reasons but here we have a difference in opinions that is all. You and I both believe the N.T. for exactly what it says. But, our perspectives vary on the subject of "charity," which is the elementary component of this subject.

Where does the bible teach us to consult a physician? Where does the bible teach us to clean our bodies and put on some cologone? Where does the bible teach us to stay home and not plant a garden? Surely he is able to provide. He is able to love us just as much if we neve take a bath.

Trusting God for healing, provisions and protection is faith in God. It is a work of Charity,which is love in action, to do what we can do within the bonds of love and reason to fulfill our God given position as not only provider but protector of our families too. Does that mean that God is not both provider and protector? No. It does mean that there are somethings that are just reasonalbe without any scriptural prohibitions.

The bible teaches me to love my neighbor. To allow him to perpetuate whatever evil he decides to do on my wife, children and grandchildren is not loving my neighbor. It is just the opposite. To stand by and let him do his evil without being stopped by whatever means at my disposal is not only NOT loving my family but it is NOT loving the evil man either.

Sometimes charity is called upon to go to extremes. We should always be ready to exercise the discipline upon the wayward whenever it is needed. God is not unreasonable.

Just now, I am reminded of the Quaker at the top of the stairs in his home finding a burglar at the bottom of his stairs in the middle of the night. He leveled his shotgun on the burglar and said to him, "Friend, I mean thee no harm but thou art standing where I am about to start shooting."

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

It must be known that I believe that Jesus would have me to love my enemy, pray for them that despitefully uses me, do good to them that would do me evil.

Stopping a criminal in his tracts that is intent on doing my family harm can have a life altering affect upon him, both physically and spiritually too. I will pray for him, I will render good for evil and I will also show my love for him too. Meanwhile, the dude is NOT going to harm my family.

Huh?

[Scott Hutchinson]

There was a line in a old folk song ,that went in this world when you ramble you'll meet some funny men ,some will rob you with a sixgun and some with a fountainpen.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

If you cannot see the difference between an isolated incident of armed assault, robbery, home intrusion, or rape, and systematic persecution of an ethnic or religious minority . . .

. . . then I cannot help you understand what I wrote earlier.

Forget about the guns and knives . . . if somebody attacks my daughter I will kill them with my bare hands if nothing of advantage is within reach. I'll worry about all the legal and religious implications later. It looks like you've got a woman and a couple of brats yourself. You would do well to make up your mind ahead of time to fight to the death and take a few hits without stopping if ever you are jumped by thugs. Your wife and children would probably like to know that Daddy won't need to deliberate and divinate if they ever need deliverance.

All the pious platitudes in the world won't change the fact that in your hour of need you'd rather be in my company than with your fellow conscientious objectors.

Have a great day, and be careful what all you do in Jesus' name.

Matthew 18:6
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

1 Timothy 5:8
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

What would you do if you failed to strangle your attacker? The use of Matthew 18:6 does not entitle the use of deadly force against anyone.

1st Timothy was taken out of context to prove your agenda.

I do believe if I needed you in my hour of need I would be searching for a nose clip for what you would leave in your shorts during a crisis.

In my life before Christ, I had to hear all I can stand from tough guy heroes who at the moment of crisis they would lose their nerve. Save your heroics for those who would be impressed.

My wife knows what I would do and we would pray. Unlike tough guys like you we don’t wait until the day the axe falls to get a prayer life. I will pray that your attacker (or attackers) don’t wrestle your own weapon from you and use it on yourself and your family. God help them.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

FYI this has been discussed and polled already here at AFF, in a thread titled 'Would you pull the trigger.'

What we took away from that thread, in essence, is the concept that a person has already chosen hell for themselves if they commence an assault where they are threatening another person with deadly force.

My application of Christianity to the topic of self defense is that, after a lethal defensive incident, gun-toting Christians are to pray for the family of their dearly-departed assailant in their time of 'loss.'

WHAT?? Are you really serious?

Ask a cop is they would be welcomed at the funeral of someone they shot while in the line of duty. Ask what reception such a cop would expect to receive from that family. But here you say that the "Christian shooter" should pray for the family of the one they shot? You're kidding, right?

But if you are not, please list where you got this from in your Bible. When did the Church of Jesus Christ ever do this?

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Why won't anybody answer this?

What did the fathers during Saul of Tarsus’ persecution do to protect their families? Where these men bad husbands?

Please, show one place where Jesus or His apostles said it is okay for a Christian to physically retaliate.

We sure have a wide disparity of thought here.

Protecting your home is in NO way any form of RETALIATION. Retaliation is rendering an evil deed for an evil deed. It is the old eye for an eye tooth for a tooth mentality. That would be retaliation. The Lord would not be pleased with retaliation.

There is no scriptural concepts that would licenses us to "get even" kind of action. This is NOT charity. This would be evil. But there is such a thing as righteousness in your behavior in regards to protecting your home and even military service in time of war. There is a godly attitude to be had in it all which involves loving your enemy and doing good to those that do you evil, just as Jesus said. But, Jesus never meant for us to allow ourselves or our families to be stripped, beaten or even murdered if we have a means to prevent it. The writers of the N.T. were not brain dead.

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

Huh?

Your "huh" indicates a great lack of understanding in regards to Christian charity.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

Brother Ben, you know that I love and highly admire you for many reasons but here we have a difference in opinions that is all. You and I both believe the N.T. for exactly what it says. But, our perspectives vary on the subject of "charity," which is the elementary component of this subject.

Where does the bible teach us to consult a physician? Where does the bible teach us to clean our bodies and put on some cologone? Where does the bible teach us to stay home and not plant a garden? Surely he is able to provide. He is able to love us just as much if we neve take a bath.

Trusting God for healing, provisions and protection is faith in God. It is a work of Charity,which is love in action, to do what we can do within the bonds of love and reason to fulfill our God given position as not only provider but protector of our families too. Does that mean that God is not both provider and protector? No. It does mean that there are somethings that are just reasonalbe without any scriptural prohibitions.

The bible teaches me to love my neighbor. To allow him to perpetuate whatever evil he decides to do on my wife, children and grandchildren is not loving my neighbor. It is just the opposite. To stand by and let him do his evil without being stopped by whatever means at my disposal is not only NOT loving my family but it is NOT loving the evil man either.

Sometimes charity is called upon to go to extremes. We should always be ready to exercise the discipline upon the wayward whenever it is needed. God is not unreasonable.

Just now, I am reminded of the Quaker at the top of the stairs in his home finding a burglar at the bottom of his stairs in the middle of the night. He leveled his shotgun on the burglar and said to him, "Friend, I mean thee no harm but thou art standing where I am about to start shooting."

I love you Elder and you have been so kind to me and I do appreciate you very much. Can you tell me where you are getting the word "charity”?

From where are you getting the word?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com