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The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
Absolutely. You and others have given examples of Jesus's mercy and so on, from the NT. Just wondering if his actions in the OT are to be considered, also. You believe in one God, whose name is Jesus, correct? So God in the OT is, in fact, Jesus, correct?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The Old Testament call to "go in and conquer" was a shadow of the Spiritual war we now fight, otherwise Jesus would not have told Peter to put away his sword. The land we go in and possess is not this carnal land, but a spiritual land. Unless of coarse you believe in the "Dominion Now" false doctrine that is being espoused.
Bro, I am sorry, but there is not one place in the new testament that calls us to take up arms to defend ourselves or our families, but I have provided scripture that implies just the opposite. So the burden of proof is now on you.
I thought I would post Brother Matthew's excellent post to answer your question.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
OK, the conquering thing, fine. What about God's mercy shown to folks such as Moses (barred from the promised land because of one mistake) and Uzzah (killed on the spot, for touching the ark to keep it from falling)?
Even in the NT, wasn't it God that killed Ananias and Sapphira? New believers, slipped up once. Dead. Did God decide he had to nip this kind of thing in the bud? Funny, it didn't seem to work very well, or not for long, anyway. And it's been a while since God's policy of "you lie - you die" has been in effect. (Never mind the eternal death thing. I mean dropping dead, here and now.)
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
OK, the conquering thing, fine. What about God's mercy shown to folks such as Moses (barred from the promised land because of one mistake) and Uzzah (killed on the spot, for touching the ark to keep it from falling)?
Even in the NT, wasn't it was God that killed Ananias and Sapphira? New believers, slipped up once. Dead. Did God decide he had to nip this kind of thing in the bud? Funny, it didn't seem to work very well, or not for long, anyway. And it's been a while since God's policy of "you lie - you die" has been in effect. (Never mind the eternal death thing. I mean dropping dead, here and now.)
Big difference between a destroying Israeli army going out to slay the Amalikites, and GOD Himself pulling your plug.
"Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, AVENGE NOT YOURSELF, BUT RATHER GIVE PLACE UNTO WRATH: for it is written, VEGEANCE IS MINE; I WILL REPAY, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good."
Timmy if you never grow up then Peter Pan will take you to Never Never Land, where all Lost Boys go.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Big difference between a destroying Israeli army going out to slay the Amalikites, and GOD Himself pulling your plug.
True! My question, though, had to do with using Jesus as our example, specifically in L&F's post.
I guess we need to pick carefully which of his actions use as examples. E.g., not the killing in response to an offense. In God's case, touching the ark or lying about what we gave warranted some killings. But in my case, I shouldn't kill my son if he doesn't do the dishes when I told him to, should I?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
"Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live PEACEABLY with all men. Dearly beloved, AVENGE NOT yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
Wow, sure a lot of tough guys (and gals?) on this thread.
Sister LR, I remember a time an individual I knew years ago told another tuff the same threat. Well, the tough guy took the offer and went to the guy’s home. True to his word the natural born killer was waiting at his front door with weapon in hand. The guy who went to parlay with the hero just punch out the gas pedal in his dualie and drove the truck right through the front of the house while Clint Eastwood was banging off rounds. I think they found our gun-toting hero somewhere around the truck's rear axles.
Anyway it's pretty smoked that you take such pride in your willingness to take a life and do it with such zeal.
Sister, you don't know me from Adam's house cat.
I want to tell you something. Not some, but everyone, whom I have heard speak like you are cowards.
They loose their bodily functions when placed in the path of someone who they just shot at, with a weapon like your husband's 357, and the insane lunatic is still coming at them, smiling like Kool-Aid man.
Law enforcement look at people who make boasts like you as a high risk, not only to themselves, but also to everyone around them.
I have been pretty surprised by some responses on this thread. Let me tell you, yours wins the prize for the most vulgar. Vulgar because you are supposed to be a "preacher" and an Apostolic Holy Ghost filled person.
WOW...what a judgemental speech! Did you go to school for this one or does it just come naturally?
While you proceed to spout off at the mouth with your judges robes on, allow me to apply your OWN words to YOU!
You don't know ME nor my husband from Adam's house cat. Eat your own words for awhile bro.
While its true that no one, including me, knows how a person (including self) will actually react when the actual threat is present, my points were quite simple...
1. My husband and I believe in self defense as well as defending those that we love.
2. My husband and I are avid deer hunters.
3. My husband collects guns because he likes them.
4. We know our guns, we practice with our guns, we are very good with our guns and aren't ashamed to say so.
Law enforcement looks at people as risks that own guns that have no experience, no training, no practice, NO SENSE. I assure you, my husband and I DO NOT fall into this category.
As for being VULGAR, the most vulgar thing of all is a limp wristed, wimpy man (or woman for that matter, but men are the worst) that won't defend his family! A real man isn't going to stand by and let some sleezebag assault, rape, and/or murder his family.
Theres a difference between DEFENSE and RECOMPENSE. I'm not talking about hunting someone down AFTER the fact and shooting them.
Based on your posts, it sounds like that prize you gave out actually belongs in your own trophy case.
Nice headlines..."Evangelist turns the other cheek as his wife and girls are shot down in front of him". What a fine Holy Ghost filled preacher/husband/father!
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
I maintain my position of defense of my family and of my country while bearing arms is the right one...not as a tough guy but from a position of love and charity. I do all of this while remaining in complete compliance with the instructions of Jesus in all the verses of scripture above.
Retaliation is ungodly. Rendering evil for evil is ungodly. Taking veangence is ungodly. Getting even is ungodly. Taking revenge is ungodly. Hating your enemies is ungodly.
Defending your family with whatever means that is neccessary is charity. Armed defense of your country is charity.
Praying for your enemies is godly. Doing good to your foe is godly. Desiring for the peace and prosperity of your enemy is godly.
None of these are not mutually exclusive.
AMEN! Summed up nicely.
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
WOW...what a judgemental speech! Did you go to school for this one or does it just come naturally?
No, I call'em like I see'em, Sister. Just telling it like it is. You posted and proceeded to brag about your arsenal. Is that correct Sister?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
While you proceed to spout off at the mouth with your judges robes on, allow me to apply your OWN words to YOU!
You don't know ME nor my husband from Adam's house cat. Eat your own
words for awhile bro.
Sister I'm just gathering your tough gal tude from your boastful post. I would like to know how you would act when the item you're shooting at is also shooting back? Deer hooves can't pull triggers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
While its true that no one, including me, knows how a person (including self) will actually react when the actual threat is present, my points were quite simple...
Sister you don't know? Maybe I will use your OWN words to remind you are your (unthoughtful?) boast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
When we lived in the Memphis area and a certain man got angry with my husband and threatened to come to our house and do bodily harm to ME, my husband said, go ahead and try it. She'll meet you at the door with a loaded .44 and she won't hesitate to use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
1. My husband and I believe in self defense as well as defending those that we love.
Show us in the word where we are to use deadly force to protect our families and property? Here is your chance to present the scriptures to prove your case. Your boasting doesn't help your argument. You were wrong to allow us to know that your husband and you would allow a fight to escalate by sending a tough to your house to brawl. It shows where you and guns fit into your life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
2. My husband and I are avid deer hunters.
No problem, Jesus didn't have a problem with killing fish and eating them.
Deer, fish, lion, bear, insect, and crawdad, all the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
3. My husband collects guns because he likes them.
That's wonderful, guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
4. We know our guns, we practice with our guns, we are very good with our guns and aren't ashamed to say so.
Your post was not about gun safety, but about being childish with them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
When we lived in the Memphis area and a certain man got angry with my husband and threatened to come to our house and do bodily harm to ME, my husband said, go ahead and try it. She'll meet you at the door with a loaded .44 and she won't hesitate to use it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
Law enforcement looks at people as risks that own guns that have no experience, no training, no practice, NO SENSE. I assure you, my husband and I DO NOT fall into this category.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
When we lived in the Memphis area and a certain man got angry with my husband and threatened to come to our house and do bodily harm to ME, my husband said, go ahead and try it. She'll meet you at the door with a loaded .44 and she won't hesitate to use it.
I have a friend who is a Lawyer with the FBI who would strongly disagree with these two post quotes. In the first one you claim to be responsible, and in the red bolded one you claim to have the same sense as the tough who was threatening you and your family. Very unwise minister, very unwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
As for being VULGAR, the most vulgar thing of all is a limp wristed, wimpy man (or woman for that matter, but men are the worst) that won't defend his family! A real man isn't going to stand by and let some sleezebag assault, rape, and/or murder his family.
You can't take this can you? Didn't you happen to read the posts of Brother Matthew, and L&F, and myself? You would see that is not the case with those who believe in non-retaliation, the non-use of deadly force.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
Theres a difference between DEFENSE and RECOMPENSE. I'm not talking about hunting someone down AFTER the fact and shooting them.
Sister, I don't really think you understand the words of Christ.
Smite the one cheek (attacked) turn and offer the other also (resist not evil). This does not mean a man cannot stand in the way of an attacker, but he cannot kill his attacker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyRev
Based on your posts, it sounds like that prize you gave out actually belongs in your own trophy case.
Nice headlines..."Evangelist turns the other cheek as his wife and girls are shot down in front of him". What a fine Holy Ghost filled preacher/husband/father!
Apologize Sister that’s all you need to do. I can see you're having a major problem with this issue. You need to apologize. You need to dig yourself. I've dealt with people like you my whole life. The world is real life and not Hollywood. Guns don't mean you have a 100% advantage. If you say that they are you will only confirm your naivetey concerning violent crimes.
Tell you what Sister you pray and ask the Holy Ghost if what I'm telling you is legit.
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
Apologize that’s all you need to do. I can see you're having a major problem with this issue. You need to apologize. You need to dig yourself. I've dealt with people like you my whole life. The world is real life and not Hollywood.
I believe you need to heed your own advice. You'd feel much better afterwards. This is real life.
Oh but wait, aren't you the guy that advises people to put cats into sacks with a rock and throw them in the river? I think that was you that posted this but if not, kindly disregard this last paragraph.
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"The only thing worse than murder in the desert is to know where the water is and not tell it!"
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