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Originally Posted by Believer
I want to comment on the above statement. I have studied this subject and many scholars have studied and wrote extensively on this subject and very few if any agree with your assertion.
You're attempts to rewrite history is astounding to say the least. You only bring your opinion that Manarchianism was the only church doctrine until the late 2nd century. As my signature states, there is no one arguing for or against this until the late 2nd or early 3rd century.
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Can you bring anything indicating a "trinity" until the late 2nd century? All the Jews were "monarchian" one God people. It is WELL substantiated in history, for 2000 years prior to Christ. Should we expect the Jewish believers to have changed their "monarchianism" simply because of Christ's advent? If so, then there would have been extensive early writing detailing why they are scrapping monarchianism for "trinitarianism"... but there is NONE until some "greek philosophers" came on the scene in the late 2nd century. I believe you quited someone who used the term trinity in 180 AD.... I guess that's the first time. Up to that time, for two thousand years, the Jews believed and taught ONE GOD... This is very well documented and substianted in writted history. I have rewritten nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Believer
Let me give you some more proof that the first century Christian held to the plurality within the Godhead. Lets discuss Hermas (A.D. 120)
Church Historian says of Hermas: But as the same apostle, in the salutations at the end of the Epsitle to the Romans, has made mention among others of Hermas, to whom the book called The Shepherd is ascribed. (Eusebius, History of the Church, 3.3)
The Shepherd, Hermas clearly contradicts the Oneness doctrine of the non-eternal Son.
“The Son of God is older than all His creation, so that He became the Father’s adviser in His creation. Therefore also He is Ancient.” (Hermas, The Shepherd, Ninth Similitude, 12, in ANF, vol 2)
Polycarp of Smyrna (A.D. 130-150) He claimed to have been a Christian for eighty six year.
And according to Irenaeus, a disciple of the Apostle John. Eusebius also made this claim.
“…wherefore also I praise Thee for all things, I bless Thee, I glorify Thee, along with the everlasting and heavenly Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, with whom, to Thee, and the Holy Spirit, be glory both now and to all coming ages. Amen.” (Martyrdom of Polycarp, 14, in ANF, vol 1)
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You are taking excerpts from people who are misrepresenting Hermas, Iraneaus, and Polycarp (all of whom were monarchian). Hermas details his theology and Christology. Again, I have the resources, but not at my immediate disposal, to bring other renderings from "Shepherd" that show's Hermas' monarchian theology.
The problem is that you are appealing to trinitarian biased "historians" for their interpretation of the early writings....
Let me ask you again, who was the "real church" from 500AD to about 1500 AD? Who determined that the "trinity" was the official doctrine of the "real church"? When, where, and by whom was this "decision" made?
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