Where do fiery trials come from?

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Exodus 10

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for I have hardened his heart, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

2And that thou mayest tell in the ears of thy son, and of thy son's son, what things I have wrought in Egypt, and my signs which I have done among them; that ye may know how that I am the LORD.

And the correct translation is....?

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for his heart he has hardened, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by big-larry

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Go in unto Pharaoh: for his heart he has hardened, and the heart of his servants, that I might shew these my signs before him:

So, the Hebrew uses third person "he" (Pharaoh), not first person "I" (God)? Well, that would make the rest of the verse very weird. "...that I (God) might shew these my signs before him (Pharaoh)". The reason Pharaoh hardened his own heart (and his own servants' hearts) is so that God could show Pharaoh some signs?

And Exodus 9:12 "And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses." is wrong, too? And these:

Exodus 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Exodus 7:13
And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 10:20
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

Must've been a conspiracy among the KJ translators to make God look so bad. Why did they do that?

And what is the correct translation of the final plague? Did God kill the firstborn of Egypt or not?

What is the correct translation of 2 Samuel 6:7?

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

Originally Posted by Timmy

So, the Hebrew uses third person "he" (Pharaoh), not first person "I" (God)? Well, that would make the rest of the verse very weird. "...that I (God) might shew these my signs before him (Pharaoh)". The reason Pharaoh hardened his own heart (and his own servants' hearts) is so that God could show Pharaoh some signs?

And Exodus 9:12 "And the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had spoken unto Moses." is wrong, too? And these:

Exodus 4:21
And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

Exodus 7:3
And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.

Exodus 7:13
And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the LORD had said.

Exodus 10:20
But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.

Must've been a conspiracy among the KJ translators to make God look so bad. Why did they do that?

And what is the correct translation of the final plague? Did God kill the firstborn of Egypt or not?

What is the correct translation of 2 Samuel 6:7?

And the anger of the LORD was kindled against Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died by the ark of God.

I like you timmy...oloroid

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

I like you timmy...oloroid

Now you've done it! Yer doooooomed!

[Charlie Brown]

Where do firey trials come from?




my wife!

Originally Posted by Timmy

Now you've done it! Yer doooooomed!

oops, maybe I spoke too soon. Is there something I don't know? A confession might be in order. "Turn right or get left" "turn or burn"

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by crazyhomie

oops, maybe I spoke too soon. Is there something I don't know? A confession might be in order. "Turn right or get left" "turn or burn"

Oh, just funnin'. I've ruffled a few feathers, around here, with my questions.

[Bro-Larry]

LOL !! You are all too funny.

Timmy:

I was only addressing the part about God hardening Pharoah's heart. I know it sounds like God hardened Pharoh's heart. But that is not what it is really saying. God would be unjust to do such a thing. God is the most righteous by far of all beings in the universe.

Here is another similar example:

(II Sam 24:1) "And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, 'Go, number Israel and Judah.' "

Sounds like God got mad and provoked David do something wrong, just so He could kill a bunch of Israelites. Right? Right.

But wait! Read the same story in I Chron 21:1. It states clearly that it was Satan who provoked David.

There is a multitude of similar verses in KJ version which make it sound like God did something that we would consider to be unjust. It is against God's nature to harden someone's heart just so he show how powerful He is.

Would it be fair for a law enforcement person to entice somebody to do something wrong, then arrest them for doing it. Of course not. That's called entrapment and it's illegal under man's law. Even an unjust judge would throw it out of his court. Is God as just as a man? Isa. 45:21 says He is a just God.

Let me give you another example:

"Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?" (Amos 3:6)

Sounds like God does evil. Right? right.

What is this really saying? It is saying: "shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD not have blown a trumpet to warn the people."

There are other verses such as the one about an evil spirit from the LORD troubled King Saul. The one about a lying spirit from the LORD, deceiving Ahab. I do not deny what those evil spirits did, I just deny that they were from the LORD.

As I see it, words used three thousand years ago are very difficult to translate into words that mean the same thing today.

[Timmy]

So, every single one of the "God hardened Pharaoh's heart" scriptures is mistranslated? Even the ones that give his reason for doing so?

God didn't really kill Uzzah, either, I suppose?

He didn't really kill the firstborn children and babies of Egypt? What is the "correct" translation of that passage?

When there is a difference between two accounts of the same event, what, you just pick the one that sounds best to you, and don't believe the other one?

Where are you getting all these amazing insights? Where are you getting all these "correct" interpretations? Whenever I see something in the Bible that I don't like, can I change it too?

[Bro-Larry]

Dear Bro (T.F.) Timmy, LOL

To try to answer your question, Let me ask you a question.

What do you do with scriptures like: "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated" or (paraphrase) "If you don't hate your family you cannot be my disciple" ?

Do you try to find out what it really means or do you go ahead and hate your family?