"The Giant Sucking Sound"

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

They upci is not standing up for television, imo... they are simply allowing the use of it as a method of communication. The only think the upci is standing up for is the cause of the gospel... I wish poeple would quit being "against" things, and be FOR something! Too many people's ministries are defined by what they are agiainst... let's stand up and be for the gospel!

Are you closet NCO?

Bro. Benincasa...

I want you to know I do care what you think... I really do, I do care what your convictions are, and I thank God that you have them and I hope that He helps you stand by them. I really do.

But I also am not new to this. I've been in this for 13 years and I have seen more hypocrisy and judgementalism in those 13 short years than I ever wish to see the rest of my life or ever wished to see ever. I know how it works... I've seen people, rather than getting help from the church, being scorned because they sinned... 16 year old girls who get expelled and punished and basically excommunicated and shamed publically while the 18 year old boy who got her pregnant has not one thing done to him even though EVERYONE knows he is the father...

kids who have serious drug addictions just brushed to the side and ignored while they infect entire youth groups with thier problem from the inside because no one cared enough to reach out to them... No one cared enough to move thier faith beyond following the rules hwen people were watching (even high they knew how to follow the rules) to an honest relationship with God...

See, the high school I went to... Maybe 10% of the kids who go there (and from what I know the % is less) are still in the church. That's counting from 3 grades under me to 3 grades over me... All graduated from high school, all in thier 20s.... and the vast majority of them (and this is a UPC high school) as far as I know aren't in the church...

I know the game you play, I know how all of this works, I've seen it and dealt with it for years now. I get that you tell yourself that I couldnt' care any less about what you say because I disagree... But, see, bro, the difference is that I know the truth...

The truth is that you don't care what I have to say and you just tell yourself that I don't care so you don't have to worry about how the way you act makes me or others like me feel. You don't have to worry about those who you force to backslide with your bad attitude because you keep telling yourself that they actually had the bad attitude when, in reality, all they wanted was a real answer, they were ready for something more than milk something more than walls, and you refuse to give it to them because that scares you.

you can see it in your posts... Not once on this board have you ever spoken to me as an equal, you speak down to me like you think that somehow because you preach you are worth more and your opinion matters and mine doesn't... But that isn't how it works and you know it. There is no first or last, and if there is, its the opposite of how we see it here on this earth...

I don't think a lot of myself, bro, even though sometimes I know it reads like I think I have all the answers... I know I don't, most of the time I'm really just asking, but I know if I actually ask and dont' actually defend the position of my question, I'll never get an answer... But I read your answer, sometimes I even beg for the answer that's in the manual, because things would be so much easier if it weren't just a man-made bunch of rules. Things would be so much easier if the sources of our hypocricys and our secrets that we hide were actually Biblical and something we could justify...

But your response to people like me who are just asking, is proof that they aren't... You can't speak to me like I actually could be right, because you can't admit that you could be wrong... and that's fine and you can keep on going on with a weak flock...

but I refuse to be weak... I refuse to know man's rules rather than God... That's why I ask what I do, that's why I think like I do... Because I don't listen to things because some guy says it (although I do care that he thinks what he does and I respect those views because he thinks them and he is entitled to them)... but don't act like the way you think is from God because you can put "evangelist" in front of your name. And don't act like you actually care about what I think when its plain to everyone who reads how you talk down to me that that's the furthest thing from the truth.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

no, I do care...

If someone can show me how a television set is, in and of itself evil, I'll get rid of mine... I don't think you can do it, but you are more than free to try...

If Jesus preached it and David played his harp to it, I doubt you would give a care, listen if you can watch the spew on television and you can shout and run the pews of an Apostolic church after steady viewing of the blue screen, I highly doubt you would give ear to what I would say.

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

I just really want to know when we became Catholic and decided we could sit down and make laws and then say God made them and they are infallible....

It's called a fellowship and there are guidelines to that fellowship. Meaning a statement of faith and to what the card holding members agree to believe on. Nothing Catholic about it, they are choosing to abstain from television, it's called taking a stand, but now that stand will be harder to hold.

[Praxeas]

That giant sucking sound you hear is someone attempting to gain control of your brain because you refused to hand it over otherwise

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Larry,

The problem is the way you are looking at all these things. The pandemic you speak of is happenning to youth all over the fellowship.

At somepoint what you believe is not a rule, but a devotion. I wear a seat belt because I am fearful of a $90 ticket. I drive 65 on the highway for I feel unsafe at 70 MPH. At 14, God dealt with my heart. The things I hold true and precious became what I believed for myself. Other family members dissed the preachers and they are shipwrecked.

this was not meant to be harsh, friend.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

If Jesus preached it and David played his harp to it, I doubt you would give a care, listen if you can watch the spew on television and you can shout and run the pews of an Apostolic church after steady viewing of the blue screen, I highly doubt you would give ear to what I would say.

lol

I care a lot more about what Jesus preached than you show that you do in your posts...

Jesus didn't preach baptism... He barely preached the infilling of the Holy Ghost... But he did preach about love and compassion a lot... He preached about helping the poor and caring for the sick... He preached about doing good to people, even those who hate you and do bad things to you...

He preached about being a good person and doing good things... It wasn't this huge list of specific dos and don'ts, it was just a simple thing "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"... Real easy... real straightforward...

It's called a fellowship and there are guidelines to that fellowship. Meaning a statement of faith and to what the card holding members agree to believe on. Nothing Catholic about it, they are choosing to abstain from television, it's called taking a stand, but now that stand will be harder to hold.

The points is (and what makes it "Catholic") is that there is no reason to take a stand... It was a man-made rule made in the 1970s and we are now, 40 years later, realizing that it was a mistake... There is nothing to take a stand on except the word of a bunch of MEN... Not God...

God said to use moderation and restraint, not ban things outright...

and he definately never said anything about restricting what you can use to reach people. Paul preached an entire sermon on a ROMAN GOD... I mean, come on. He actually went into the temple and told them that thier believe in this "unkown Roman God" was actually a belief in the God of Israel... He used the Roman Religion itself to make a case for Christ...

and you're tleling me we can't use some wires and tubes and signals??? Give me a break...

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Larry,

The problem is the way you are looking at all these things. The pandemic you speak of is happenning to youth all over the fellowship.

At somepoint what you believe is not a rule, but a devotion. I wear a seat belt because I am fearful of a $90 ticket. I drive 65 on the highway for I feel unsafe at 70 MPH. At 14, God dealt with my heart. The things I hold true and precious became what I believed for myself. Other family members dissed the preachers and they are shipwrecked.

this was not meant to be harsh, friend.

But that's my point...

I've said it before, I'm all for personal convictions. God bless you for them, brother...

But your personal convictions end with you... You can't extend them to me.

I know the pandemic is happening all over the fellowship. Most of it is because the youth just know the rules and they don't have the heart for it, but you can't tell whether they have the heart for it or not because its so easy to follow the rules when mom and dad and Youth Pastor are looking that you can't tell whose really hurting most of the time (and when you can the wounds are so deep that we don't know how to fix them)...

I don't like the whole "pray a sinner's prayer" thing that mainline Christianity does... But I have to say thier focus on a relationship with Christ is so much better than our focus on dunking people and getting them to speak in tongues... Baptism and spirit infilling are important, yes, but we seem to stop there and forget everything else...

1 book in the New Testament deals with new believers being converted... 4 have to do with documenting Christ's death... and 21 have to do with living the life of a Christian...

But we spend 1/2 of our time on converting new believers... and the other 1/2 telling people what the list of dos and don'ts that we made says....

and they never really get a relationship with God to get to the point where they have personal convictions...

PLUS, even if they do get personal convictions, thier convictions are rejected as not good enough if they aren't convicted against all the same things that those in leadership are...

and I didn't take it as harsh at all. Frankly I thank God that you have convictions, because it is a sign that you have a real relationship with God... The only thing I think that people in our movement need to realize is that personal convictions are personal things and they cannot be applied across the board... We need to thank God for the personal convictions everyone has and do our best to respect the convictions of others (both the more strict ones and the less strict ones) and fellowship in harmony loving Christ... Because heaven isn't gonna be split with the standard folks and the not standard folks... we're all gonna be together, and we should start working on that togetherness here on this earth...

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

lol

I care a lot more about what Jesus preached than you show that you do in your posts...

Jesus didn't preach baptism...

You really have an issue, my boy you need to get some teaching, and tonight I'm not into this.

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

He barely preached the infilling of the Holy Ghost...

13 years in a church?

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

But he did preach about love and compassion a lot... He preached about helping the poor and caring for the sick... He preached about doing good to people, even those who hate you and do bad things to you...

So, you teach a Jesus who was a very good Boy Scout?

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

He preached about being a good person and doing good things... It wasn't this huge list of specific dos and don'ts, it was just a simple thing "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"... Real easy... real straightforward...

Jesus taught and Paul carried it to the entire Roman world, they weren't Baptists, nor were they flaming liberals.

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

The points is (and what makes it "Catholic") is that there is no reason to take a stand... It was a man-made rule made in the 1970s and we are now, 40 years later, realizing that it was a mistake... There is nothing to take a stand on except the word of a bunch of MEN... Not God...

Are you for real? Some of these MEN are called ministers would you like to take that into consideration? Tell me are you lead by God? How many Bible studies have you given non-Christians this week or the week before? You know something didn't I say I wasn't going to dialogue with you?

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

God said to use moderation and restraint, not ban things outright...

13 years in the church? You want to try the above again? Listen, I'm not going to post to you, because you need to dig yourself. Anyone who knows my record will tell you that I rarely tell anyone that I will not correspond with them. I never leave a discussion no matter how obnoxious they are. I just want to try extra hard not to get banned for life. If you would happen to take the time to shut off your computer and read your Bible you will find in the Book of Genesis that God banned Adam and Eve outright from the access of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now I am amazed that you can climb my tree with such brass and make statements that are totally out in left field. Go in peace, and I will try to keep in mind not to answer any of your posts. Sound fair enough?

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

and he definately never said anything about restricting what you can use to reach people. Paul preached an entire sermon on a ROMAN GOD... I mean, come on. He actually went into the temple and told them that thier believe in this "unkown Roman God" was actually a belief in the God of Israel... He used the Roman Religion itself to make a case for Christ...

Yes he preached TO the Areopagus, and he didn't join them. Big difference.

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

and you're tleling me we can't use some wires and tubes and signals??? Give me a break...

It's not wires and tubes, just as a gun is not steel and gunpowder, it's more than that, the content is trash and the advertising is commercialism to the max, it's the wrong road.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You really have an issue, my boy you need to get some teaching, and tonight I'm not into this.

I have a ton of teaching in a lot of different things, you'd probably be surprised all the things I've studied...

13 years in a church?

Yes, Jesus, in comparison to other things, didn't preach that much about the infilling of the spirit and definately not about it as we preach it...

yes, Jesus preached power from God and that is the Holy Spirit, but he preached love and kindness and respect for others a lot more than he ever preached about the Spirit...

So, you teach a Jesus who was a very good Boy Scout?

Hey, that's what the Bible says, you can mock it all you want, but that doesn't change that Jesus' actual sermons to people were about love and charity and giving...

What good does it do that you do all the gifts of the spirit that you have all the power in heaven, if you don't have love??? I believe Paul said something like that.... and we seem to have forgotten it along the way...

Jesus taught and Paul carried it to the entire Roman world, they weren't Baptists, nor were they flaming liberals.

Yes, they were flaming liberals... should tell you something about what we should be... We should be at the forefront of loving people, of accepting people, of helping people regardless of thier race, sexual orientation, class status, or religion...

If a Muslim is starving on the streets of Iraq WE the People of God should be working to help him get food, even if he never accepts the gospel, we should still be working to get him food.

This isn't about just saving people and making it to an otherworldly heaven, this is also suppose to be about making this life HERE ON EARTH like heaven...

Are you for real? Some of these MEN are called ministers would you like to take that into consideration? Tell me are you lead by God? How many Bible studies have you given non-Christians this week or the week before? You know something didn't I say I wasn't going to dialogue with you?

See, this is where the talking down starts... You know nothing about me, you don't know my name outside of "larry" because I"ve used that as my nick before... You don't know the situation I'm in, the life I'm living, or the place I'm at, but yet you judge me somehow based upon some outward number of things I'm doing...

Your righteousness is as filthy rags, evangelist, I believe that's in the Bible, too, you should open it up yourself once in a while...

As is "the last shall be first and the first shall be last"... So have fun exalting yourself and telling yourself you are better, because in the end, it won't be you who God exalts because of your attitude...

and, yes, those men are ministers, and that is great and I respect them. But that doesn't mean thier word is infallible or gospel. They can (and did) make mistakes (and I'm not even saying the tv rule was a mistake... I'm just saying because they are human, they did make mistakes, period, I believe that's in the Bible, too)

13 years in the church? You want to try the above again? Listen, I'm not going to post to you, because you need to dig yourself. Anyone who knows my record will tell you that I rarely tell anyone that I will not correspond with them. I never leave a discussion no matter how obnoxious they are. I just want to try extra hard not to get banned for life. If you would happen to take the time to shut off your computer and read your Bible you will find in the Book of Genesis that God banned Adam and Eve outright from the access of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Now I am amazed that you can climb my tree with such brass and make statements that are totally out in left field. Go in peace, and I will try to keep in mind not to answer any of your posts. Sound fair enough?

Yes, 13 years in the church in 3 different youth groups, all with the same problems, all with the same dying people who only know rules and youth camp highs and don't actually know Christ because no one ever gave them that chance...

Yes, God banned Adam and Eve from the garden, but you need to open your Bible up again, brother, God didn't ban them because of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... He banned them so they couldn't get to the tree of life...

and I know you are amazed that I think I can be on your level, I stated that in the last post. That you are arrogant and full of yourself and you think because you can "do things" that you are somehow better than me... All your post did was prove me right.

and you can not answer me, that doesn't change a word of what I said or how correct it was. I hope God blesses you brother, and changes your heart, because it really needs it, whether you are willing to admit it or not...

Yes he preached TO the Areopagus, and he didn't join them. Big difference.

Who said anything about converting to another religion??? TV isn't religion, bro, its a tool. In fact, the electronics in a television set are almost identical to the electronics in your computer monitor... Isn't that pretty amazing???

Even more amazing is I can order all the cable packages I want and never get an ounce of porn unless I order premium channels in those packages or above those packages...

But I can get millions of hours worth of porn movies, billions and probably trillians of porn pictures, and trillions of words of pornographic stories off of the Internet FOR FREE, at the click of a mouse...

Now you tell me which is more evil, me ordering www.skyangel.com where there isn't even a non-Christian channel on the network, or me having a high-speed connection to the Internet where I can stream high-definition porn for free anytime I want it...

It's not wires and tubes, just as a gun is not steel and gunpowder, it's more than that, the content is trash and the advertising is commercialism to the max, it's the wrong road.

You really don't get it, do you? Yes, there is commercialism and trash and advertisint and other things that are wrong...

But just like a gun has tons of uses that are good (hunting, defending oneself, one's family, and one's country, having fun shooting clay pigeons or targets, etc.), so does TV have tons of uses that are good. What you need is moderation and self-control, not rules and bans... That's the Biblical way of doing things...

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by pelathais

BobDylan, did you know that if you used Firefox as your browser it has a built in spell checker? You're a smart guy and typos are inevitable on boards like this, but using Firefox would probably enable you to work more efficiently.

Just some thoughts that I hope will be helpful. Thanks.

I have TWO typos (note, not mispellings, simply a letter missing in both cases from striking the keys too fast...), and I get called on the carpet! Thanks ALOT P....

I don't like firefox because it doesn't load some pages correctly... BTW , thanks for the kind words, even if they are sandwiched in critical analysis!