"The Giant Sucking Sound"

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by James Griffin

Are you closet NCO?

Nope, abstolutely not... just stirring the pot. How could I be closet anything??? I am actually rather conservative, I just like to think of myself as a consistent conservative....

Who are you and what do you believe yourself? Are you fully out-of-the-closet NCO?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

and, yes, those men are ministers, and that is great and I respect them. But that doesn't mean thier word is infallible or gospel. They can (and did) make mistakes (and I'm not even saying the tv rule was a mistake... I'm just saying because they are human, they did make mistakes, period, I believe that's in the Bible, too)

I am going to greatly regret answering even this one little blurb of yours but here it goes, my boy, every religion should be judged by it's best, and by saying that I must point out that you don't respect those ministers. You are constantly wanting to stress "mistakes," "wrong doings," and "human weakness" but the truth is these men had made their bones and earned their positions back when they chose not to commercialize the United Pentecostal Church International. They were not looking to rip the flesh off of any saint of God, or want to jam up anyone's good time, but they saw the need to avoid the television and not advertise or use its medium.


They saw it as hypocritical to say that one shouldn't watch the garbage that is on it and then turn around and use it to build a business, oh, I mean the Kingdom? Nah, it's all to build a business, nice Hollywood, MGM, in living color with preachers wearing base so their faces won't look pale or ghostly on the television screen. Listen Larry live life and drink a lot of water, oh and by the way you don't know me either, so dig your double standard, and keep in mind it's not personal, it's never personal, just spiritual.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[James Griffin]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

Nope, abstolutely not... just stirring the pot. How could I be closet anything??? I am actually rather conservative, I just like to think of myself as a consistent conservative....

Who are you and what do you believe yourself? Are you fully out-of-the-closet NCO?

It was a joke "Bob". But I am pretty conservative myself. Ironically on one thread I seemed to be the only one arguing FOR standards for a while.

Hard for me to be in a closet when I have authored a majority of the most recent position pieces on the NCO web site. A few of which apparently have been cut and pasted here. :-)

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I am going to greatly regret answering even this one little blurb of yours but here it goes, my boy, every religion should be judged by it's best, and by saying that I must point out that you don't respect those ministers. You are constantly wanting to stress "mistakes," "wrong doings," and "human weakness" but the truth is these men had made their bones and earned their positions back when they chose not to commercialize the United Pentecostal Church International. They were not looking to rip the flesh off of any saint of God, or want to jam up anyone's good time, but they saw the need to avoid the television and not advertise or use its medium.


They saw it as hypocritical to say that one shouldn't watch the garbage that is on it and then turn around and use it to build a business, oh, I mean the Kingdom? Nah, it's all to build a business, nice Hollywood, MGM, in living color with preachers wearing base so their faces won't look pale or ghostly on the television screen. Listen Larry live life and drink a lot of water, oh and by the way you don't know me either, so dig your double standard, and keep in mind it's not personal, it's never personal, just spiritual.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I don't constantly want to stress mistakes and human errors... The problem is that most people in our movement want to pretend they didn't happen and tell people to just go on pretending like it never happened and not discuss it...

I do respect those men, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything they decided... See, I've seen people backslide and hurt themselves BECAUSE of our strict rules. I've seen people mess up thier lives because of our rules... and I've seen people be hurt by our rules...

What you don't get is that no one is commercializing anything... They are simply trying to reach the lost. No one is trying to make a quick buck at the expense of anyone, they just don't see why we can use the Internet but not TV...

They saw the need to avoid the television for the same reason that they saw the need to avoid the radio in the 1910s, the organ in the early 1800s, or Handel in the 1500s... The new thing is ALWAYS preached agianst... ALWAYS!! That is human nature. Every generation since Christ has preached against whatever new-fangled gadgets those kids are into today... Its about time that we as a people get out of the 1950s and the social mores and codes of that day and age and realize this is 2007... There's new and better things for you to preach against 'cuz its new (like the Internet)

I mean, its funny, you have all this faith in ministers to decide that TV is evil and should be prohibited (even just as a tool to get our name out to people), but you don't have faith in the same ministers to use the tool as a way to evangelize, rather you assume they're just gonna try and take people's money... I think that's kind of absurd...

and, no, I don't know you, but I know your attitude, I've seen it hundreds of times before both in real life and online and its always the same... I can tell your attitude, I can read your arrogance, and I can tell by what you say what you think of me... It isn't hard to do, bro...

See, your passion is rules... Mine is just helping people find God... That's the difference between you and me... I couldn't care less if a lady wears a pair of pants or not as long as she hears "Well done, good and faithful one"... But you don't care anything but about her following the rules... You just don't want her to have a tv or wear makeup (even necessary makeup which is not what the Bible was talking about), or wear pants... Its all about a rulebook with you...

I just want people to know God, to have a relationship with Him... If He wants all that other stuff, He'll let them know Himself...

[Rico]

Originally Posted by philjones

Nope... What i am saying is that God is consistent in that he is in agreement with himself and not subject to your definitions or expectations. he is in agreement with His word but not necessarily yours. He is supreme and ALWAYS right. A Moonie is NOT God neither am I or you. God is a Spirit and is present and available to those who will receive him but he is never subject to man.

If I held to the view that God must be consistent according to man's logic or definition I would have quit a long time ago because God has dealt with situations inconsistently based on my view of things. I am not shaken with the appearance of inconsistency because I have faith that He is in agreement with Himself and I simply need to walk in that faith to see the end of the thing!

AMen, Brother! His ways are higher than our ways. In simple terms, God doesn't always make sense to us, but He always makes sense to Himself.

[tv1a]

It's nice to see your sprit of discernment is as accurate as it ever was. The post reeks of the catholicism doctrine of infallibility.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I am going to greatly regret answering even this one little blurb of yours but here it goes, my boy, every religion should be judged by it's best, and by saying that I must point out that you don't respect those ministers. You are constantly wanting to stress "mistakes," "wrong doings," and "human weakness" but the truth is these men had made their bones and earned their positions back when they chose not to commercialize the United Pentecostal Church International. They were not looking to rip the flesh off of any saint of God, or want to jam up anyone's good time, but they saw the need to avoid the television and not advertise or use its medium.


They saw it as hypocritical to say that one shouldn't watch the garbage that is on it and then turn around and use it to build a business, oh, I mean the Kingdom? Nah, it's all to build a business, nice Hollywood, MGM, in living color with preachers wearing base so their faces won't look pale or ghostly on the television screen. Listen Larry live life and drink a lot of water, oh and by the way you don't know me either, so dig your double standard, and keep in mind it's not personal, it's never personal, just spiritual.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by BobDylan

I have TWO typos (note, not mispellings, simply a letter missing in both cases from striking the keys too fast...), and I get called on the carpet! Thanks ALOT P....

I don't like firefox because it doesn't load some pages correctly... BTW , thanks for the kind words, even if they are sandwiched in critical analysis!

Just throwing a rock at your window. Yes, I recognized the typos as such. Like I said, it's inevitable. I never bring it up except that I wanted a reason to point out Firefox to you. It's much better than the Wondows stuff.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

What most conservatives see is not just a lifting of an advertisement ban, but giving uncontrolled access to sin.

It's all about control. This is exactly what this has been about; CONTOL.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by tv1a

It's nice to see your sprit of discernment is as accurate as it ever was. The post reeks of the catholicism doctrine of infallibility.

And I see you still can't handle the truth. You shouldn't let all this make you so angry, just relax it's not personal.

Television was a bad move. In any event, just remember time proves all things.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Rico]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

Bro. Benincasa...

I want you to know I do care what you think... I really do, I do care what your convictions are, and I thank God that you have them and I hope that He helps you stand by them. I really do.

But I also am not new to this. I've been in this for 13 years and I have seen more hypocrisy and judgementalism in those 13 short years than I ever wish to see the rest of my life or ever wished to see ever. I know how it works... I've seen people, rather than getting help from the church, being scorned because they sinned... 16 year old girls who get expelled and punished and basically excommunicated and shamed publically while the 18 year old boy who got her pregnant has not one thing done to him even though EVERYONE knows he is the father...

kids who have serious drug addictions just brushed to the side and ignored while they infect entire youth groups with thier problem from the inside because no one cared enough to reach out to them... No one cared enough to move thier faith beyond following the rules hwen people were watching (even high they knew how to follow the rules) to an honest relationship with God...

See, the high school I went to... Maybe 10% of the kids who go there (and from what I know the % is less) are still in the church. That's counting from 3 grades under me to 3 grades over me... All graduated from high school, all in thier 20s.... and the vast majority of them (and this is a UPC high school) as far as I know aren't in the church...

I know the game you play, I know how all of this works, I've seen it and dealt with it for years now. I get that you tell yourself that I couldnt' care any less about what you say because I disagree... But, see, bro, the difference is that I know the truth...

The truth is that you don't care what I have to say and you just tell yourself that I don't care so you don't have to worry about how the way you act makes me or others like me feel. You don't have to worry about those who you force to backslide with your bad attitude because you keep telling yourself that they actually had the bad attitude when, in reality, all they wanted was a real answer, they were ready for something more than milk something more than walls, and you refuse to give it to them because that scares you.

you can see it in your posts... Not once on this board have you ever spoken to me as an equal, you speak down to me like you think that somehow because you preach you are worth more and your opinion matters and mine doesn't... But that isn't how it works and you know it. There is no first or last, and if there is, its the opposite of how we see it here on this earth...

I don't think a lot of myself, bro, even though sometimes I know it reads like I think I have all the answers... I know I don't, most of the time I'm really just asking, but I know if I actually ask and dont' actually defend the position of my question, I'll never get an answer... But I read your answer, sometimes I even beg for the answer that's in the manual, because things would be so much easier if it weren't just a man-made bunch of rules. Things would be so much easier if the sources of our hypocricys and our secrets that we hide were actually Biblical and something we could justify...

But your response to people like me who are just asking, is proof that they aren't... You can't speak to me like I actually could be right, because you can't admit that you could be wrong... and that's fine and you can keep on going on with a weak flock...

but I refuse to be weak... I refuse to know man's rules rather than God... That's why I ask what I do, that's why I think like I do... Because I don't listen to things because some guy says it (although I do care that he thinks what he does and I respect those views because he thinks them and he is entitled to them)... but don't act like the way you think is from God because you can put "evangelist" in front of your name. And don't act like you actually care about what I think when its plain to everyone who reads how you talk down to me that that's the furthest thing from the truth.

Brother, this is one of the most honest posts I've seen you make. I don't think you know Brother Benincasa as well as you think you do, though. Sometimes, in life, you have to learn to look past someone's hard exterior to see who they really are. You are too busy looking at Brother B.'s hard shell to be able to see him. This is a man that loves lost souls. He's been an evangelist for a long time now, and no one becomes an evangelist for the money; trust me on that. Yes, he's frank and outspoken, but so are you. Don't be so quick to judge him and his motives.