Disaffiliation with the UPC????

[Book 'em Dano]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

music that sounds like things i listened to before i got in church.

What kind of music is that? What style of music does it sound like in your church? Do they use guitars and drums? Bass? There is no exclusive musical style that only exists in a Pentecostal church other than the words. Most of it sounds like blue grass or country or rock n roll (like from the 50s)...anyone can come into a Pentecostal church and say the music sounds like what they used to listen to before hand except for the words

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by revrandy

If the Pastor decides to disaffilliate his Church from the UPC but does not discuss UPC issues as to why he is disaffilliating is he being honest or dishonest?

It takes either a Board Meeting or General Meeting doesn't it to vote for disaffilliation should he discuss with those the reasons he is disaffilliating?

imo...if the church is UPC they have a right to know why he believes they should disaffilliate...especially if he is not the founding pastor but voted in..

what say ye??

Absolutely.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by revrandy

If the Pastor decides to disaffilliate his Church from the UPC but does not discuss UPC issues as to why he is disaffilliating is he being honest or dishonest?

It takes either a Board Meeting or General Meeting doesn't it to vote for disaffilliation should he discuss with those the reasons he is disaffilliating?

imo...if the church is UPC they have a right to know why he believes they should disaffilliate...especially if he is not the founding pastor but voted in..

what say ye??

I would want to know. He did not discuss to some degree. I would leave.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by Neckstadt

I would want to know. He did not discuss to some degree. I would leave.

why? if the church does not have it in there by-laws( most of them will not)and the pastor is the one who has to pay his dues (not you)then why would it be any of your buisness.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

why? if the church does not have it in there by-laws( most of them will not)and the pastor is the one who has to pay his dues (not you)then why would it be any of your buisness.

It's your business because you're part of a larger world. When it comes time to relocate across the country will you rely only upon your pastor to find you a new church home? What if his circle of friends is not represented in that area? When the pastor asks for an offering to support missions or a fund drive like SFC it's your business to know what he's talking about.

Also, the pastor is accountable to you. When he falls into sin, say by allowing a family member to have access to the young ladies in the church to whom do you turn? The offender can and should be turned over to the law, but what about your pastor?

What happens when your pastor actually becomes insane? Little by little over the years you notice the onset of symptoms. At first everyone is embarrassed but you try to be supportive. But then he places children in harm's way. He acts oddly in public - even bizarrely. He invites the Unification Church (Moonies) to conduct the Sunday evening service every other Sunday. He abruptly turns the church service over to a woman who is obviously high because he “wants to hear what she has to say.” He later confides to you that this same woman is in the habit of calling him from her bed after she has committed indescretions with men. You are shocked to hear how sometimes she puts the man on the phone.

He does things like this repeatedly.

He loses his old good natured personality that you loved about him and becomes irritable and paranoid. He makes threats against the government and the police have to investigate. You are taken in for an “interview” with a local police captain and federal agents. The first interview lasts 6 hours and there are three more. Is any of this "your business?"

For me, at the time, I was instructed to keep it all quiet.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by pelathais

It's your business because you're part of a larger world. When it comes time to relocate across the country will you rely only upon your pastor to find you a new church home? What if his circle of friends is not represented in that area? When the pastor asks for an offering to support missions or a fund drive like SFC it's your business to know what he's talking about.

Also, the pastor is accountable to you. When he falls into sin, say by allowing a family member to have access to the young ladies in the church to whom do you turn? The offender can and should be turned over to the law, but what about your pastor?

What happens when your pastor actually becomes insane? Little by little over the years you notice the onset of symptoms. At first everyone is embarrassed but you try to be supportive. But then he places children in harm's way. He acts oddly in public - even bizarrely. He invites the Unification Church (Moonies) to conduct the Sunday evening service every other Sunday. He abruptly turns the church service over to a woman who is obviously high because he “wants to hear what she has to say.” He later confides to you that this same woman is in the habit of calling him from her bed after she has committed indescretions with men. You are shocked to hear how sometimes she puts the man on the phone.

He does things like this repeatedly.

He loses his old good natured personality that you loved about him and becomes irritable and paranoid. He makes threats against the government and the police have to investigate. You are taken in for an “interview” with a local police captain and federal agents. The first interview lasts 6 hours and there are three more. Is any of this "your business?"

none of this has anything to do with the upc.my pastor has 3 elders(2 in the upc and 1 independent)if he goes insane they can come in and take the church from him and it states this in our by-laws.

[hometown guy]

its your by-laws in a church that will help you if something in a church goes wrong not the upc.when is the last time you heard of the upc coming in and pulling someones licensens.its a slim to none chance of that happening.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

none of this has anything to do with the upc.my pastor has 3 elders(2 in the upc and 1 independent)if he goes insane they can come in and take the church from him and it states this in our by-laws.

It states, "...if Brother Hometownguy or one of the elders sees the behavior described above, Brother HTG can alert the elders who will take unified action to remove the pastor from doing harm to himself and others..." ???

But who diagnoses "insanity?" You actually have to get a judge to rule on that after the testimony of several doctors. And you're mistaken, it has everything to do with the UPC because the UPC has licensed the pastor and the pastor has agreed to submit to the Judicial Procedure.

By joining the UPC, the pastor himself has placed himself into a covenantal relationship with other like-minded ministers. This is for the protection of the pastor and to protect those who he serves at the local church.

Now, you personally may not want to enter into such an agreement, and in America you are free to choose. However, the pastor under discussion here did agree to this under no duress and of his own free will. Now he should keep his word and live up to his commitments; just like he would expect any saint in his church to do.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

its your by-laws in a church that will help you if something in a church goes wrong not the upc.when is the last time you heard of the upc coming in and pulling someones licensens.its a slim to none chance of that happening.

One particular incident comes immediately to mind. A DS had to discipline someone close to him. To his credit, the DS didn't play favorites but acted in the interests of the org, the local church and the individual saints in that local church.

He, along with the Dist Board, "pulled" the license and sent the offending soul off to heal some place - and disclosed the whole affair to the rest of the ministry. No secrets, no cover ups. It was painful and I watched that DS weep several times over it, but he did the right thing. Paid a heavy price, but a heavier price would have been exacted if he failed. I admire and love that man for what he did, though I know it broke his heart to do it.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

no not sleeves to the elbow.notice that i said unmodest if i was talking about sleeves to the elbow i would have said they didnt have the same standard we have(now above the elbow thats a diffrent story)but im talking about high slits and very low necklines and form fitting clothes

Oh, drat!!
I'm a few generations too late.
All I got to see at our youth functions were tight sweaters and tight skirts.
Now the young men get to see cleavage, high slits, and unmentionables.
Who said those were the "good old days" back then?