Sleeping with Uncle Jeff

[ILG]

I wrote a story called "Walling in of a Reprobate". Here is a link to the article:

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ead.php?t=8952

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Tamor, I dont think you did.... a broken heart over something like this is appropreate.

but this place tends to turn into a mob. just wanted to head that off....

Just everyone ought to remember the article isnt exactly unbiased. there is a LOT of background and a lot of facts that have been left out.

it aint so cut and dried.

The guy confessed right??

[ILG]

Originally Posted by IBCrazier2

My question is, what would you do if you were in any of these peoples shoes .......

If your grandkids were said to be molested by another family member in whom you thought the world of, what would your reaction be? ... How would you handle the situation. If you are their pastor, how do you get them saved from their sins, repair what has been broken, protect your church in whom you have slaved over and spent 38 years building and trying to save these people?

If your kids were molested by a family member in whom you had a great relationship with ... what would you do? Would you keep them in that environment, would you move them to a safe place, would you try to salvage what could be salvaged?

If your spouse in whom you love is caught in this situation ...... would you divorce them immediately or would you try to salvage what you have? Would you try to patch things up to keep your family ties, or just cut off all ties?

If you were a person that somehow went so far to do this, would you turn yourself in, would you just leave, or would you turn to the church to try to get a deliverance?




What would you do?
I am not asking for a response, just expressing my thoughts.
I AM NOT taking sides, just trying to think about what I would do.



It is a tragedy for everyone! Victims, Family, perpetrator, church, friends, neighbors!

It would be a horrifying position to be in as a pastor. I don't think any of us knows how we would react. I think we need to remember that the pastor was not the perpetrator. However, he seems to have made some poor judgments and his wife, if she blamed the girls, should have never done so.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ILG

What a horrifying story. Rhoni, some may blow off your statements as so much feminist hogwash....but I agree with you. Authoritarian churches are sadly set up for this stuff to flourish.

ILG,

Only those who don't know me would use the feminist platform as a smoke screen to cover their ignorance of what is going on in the world around them. The Bible states: "And the times of this ignorance God winked at but is now commanding all men everywhere to repent." God is not winking at ignorance any more and neither should we. We ave too many avenues of information to turn a blind eye to what is happening in the world and in our churches.

Say what you will about the Baby Boomers, but very little is left int he closet and swept under the rug. We want to deal with things and fix things. If individual churches want to bury their heads in the proverbial sand...well they are an island. But for a whole organization or denomination to refuse to be proactive against the wiles of satan and the methods he uses to steal, kill, and destroy and NOT use all the resources God has given us...shame on us.

We have every right to use the tools that satan has tried to use to bring the church down to tear his kingdom down. We can't do this unless we fight offensively. We need to be united in using every resource God has given us to bring salvation, healing, and restoration to people.

In His Grip, Rhoni

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Nina

From the article:

According to the UPCI's bylaws, all complaints against a pastor must first be investigated by the district before the headquarters can get involved. Complaints must be submitted in writing, signed by at least two accusers, and must state the nature, place and date of the offense. Insufficient complaints are kicked back to the complaining parties, who must submit another draft.
If this process is not followed — if, for example, there is only a verbal complaint — the district cannot open an investigation. Without evidence of a proper complaint, no UPCI officials can open an investigation. And if Texas District Superintendent Danny Russo says the district isn't interested in New Life Tabernacle, there is nothing that can be done at the national level.

General Superintendent Ken Haney politely explained this after he popped into his Tampa Marriott hotel room for a lunch break between board meetings.

"I'm vaguely familiar with that," Haney says of the rift at New Life. Unfortunately, the UPCI's bylaws prevent him from attaining knowledge beyond the level of "vaguely." His hands are tied.

"Was there a complaint properly filed?" he asks, later adding, "It is my opinion...that perhaps a complaint was not properly filed. If it is properly filed, of necessity, they have to make an investigation."

And what if a complaint is properly filed, but there's a conflict of interest between the district superintendent and the minister in question, and an investigation is never opened? Does the whole thing evaporate?

Haney assured the Press that it wouldn't.

"There's too many voices," he said. "In other words, there's too many other churches in that area with pastors that would lend themselves to complaining about it and something would have to be done.

Not satisfied with the bold proclamation that "something would have to be done," Haney added that "things will be addressed."


On so many levels, this disturbs me.
I guess I've seen too much.

Nina

I've seen way too much in the UPC too. When I read this, I thought "The complaint may always be unsatisfactory".

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by ILG

It would be a horrifying position to be in as a pastor. I don't think any of us knows how we would react. I think we need to remember that the pastor was not the perpetrator. However, he seems to have made some poor judgments and his wife, if she blamed the girls, should have never done so.

Many victims don't come forward because they fear they will not be believed, especially if it is a person in the place of respect. And we all know that victims are re-victimized by the judicial system as well as our churches because it is easier to blame females and children than to blame men and leaders who are supposed to know better and be our protectors.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

ILG,

Only those who don't know me would use the feminist platform as a smoke screen to cover their ignorance of what is going on in the world around them. The Bible states: "And the times of this ignorance God winked at but is now commanding all men everywhere to repent." God is not winking at ignorance andy more and neither should we. We ave too many avenues of information to turn a blind eye to what is happening in the world and in our churches.

Say what you will about the Baby Boomers, but very little is left int he closet and swept under the rug. We want to deal with things and fix things. If individual churches want to bury their heads in the proverbial sand...well they are an island. But for a whole organization or denomination to refuse to be proactive against the wiles of satan and the methods he uses to steal, kill, and destroy and NOT use all the resources God has given us...shame on us.

We have every right to use the tools that satan has tried to use to bring the church down to tear his kingdom down. We can't do this unless we fight offensively. We need to be united in using every resource God has given us to bring salvation, healing, and restoration to people.

In His Grip, Rhoni

Way, way too much stuff is "not the business of the district". Funny, if a pastor allowed women to wear pants it would be all over the place.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Tamor, I dont think you did.... a broken heart over something like this is appropreate.

but this place tends to turn into a mob. just wanted to head that off....

Just everyone ought to remember the article isnt exactly unbiased. there is a LOT of background and a lot of facts that have been left out.

it aint so cut and dried.

You may be right but I have relatives in that church and also a relative that lives somewhere else who was friends with the girls involved and the situation is bad.

I would like to think that some of the Pastors actions have been due to diminished capacity to do with health issues but I really don't know.

I have known about this for a long time. I do know that the part about the pastor siding with the son in law and saying the grandchildren were lying is true and I found that most troubling when I heard it a long time ago and find it just as troubling now.

I hope that I never become so enamored of education, social standing, prestige, etc that it colors my judgement in such a way.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Many victims don't come forward because they fear they will not be believed, especially if it is a person in the place of respect. And we all know that victims are re-victimized by the judicial system as well as our churches because it is easier to blame females and children than to blame men and leaders who are supposed to know better and be our protectors.

Yes, that is true, but when I worked as an advocate and also saw sexual abuse victims, I realized how very difficult these cases really are. They are never cut and dried. Ultimately, if there is no confession, as there happened to be in this case, the judge and jury decides who is telling the truth.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

You may be right but I have relatives in that church and also a relative that lives somewhere else who was friends with the girls involved and the situation is bad.

I would like to think that some of the Pastors actions have been due to diminished capacity to do with health issues but I really don't know.

I have known about this for a long time. I do know that the part about the pastor siding with the son in law and saying the grandchildren were lying is true and I found that most troubling when I heard it a long time ago and find it just as troubling now.

I hope that I never become so enamored of education, social standing, prestige, etc that it colors my judgement in such a way.

You have to wonder why a man would call his grandchildren liars.