Is Mary, the Mother of Jesus, Historically Insignificant?

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by anapko81

But your main questions ask is Mary anymore important than the traditional Protestant viewpoint. I respectively say no, only as a special vessel who God favored to bear Jesus, who was NOT born Immaculate as the RCC says.

Could a sinful human woman conceive a holy child? Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Could a sinful human woman conceive a holy child? Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh?

Yes, and she did.
(Well, not really since to say "conceive a hold child" would seam to stipulate that her body had something to do with the fertilization process. It provides a place for fertilization, but that is it. She DID provide at least half of Jesus's DNA though.)

[anapko]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Could a sinful human woman conceive a holy child? Did Jesus inherit sinful flesh?

Of course not, but then someone might say, what of Rahab, Ruth, Tamar??? These women only were used, by faith, to bring in men children in the Messiah's lineage. Not a pure lineage, but faith cleanses us in Jesus. But I don't believe a women full of sin could ever birth Jesus. But there have been sinful women that gave birth to children thaqt would grow up to be holy men of God. The second question deals in matters of affinity. Did Jesus, being born in flesh, aquire sin? No He didn't, He looked like us, and was tempted in all points as we are, but without sin. He became sin, not as a result of being Mary's son.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by anapko81

Of course not, but then someone might say, what of Rahab, Ruth, Tamar??? These women only were used, by faith, to bring in men children in the Messiah's lineage. Not a pure lineage, but faith cleanses us in Jesus. But I don't believe a women full of sin could ever birth Jesus. But there have been sinful women that gave birth to children thaqt would grow up to be holy men of God. The second question deals in matters of affinity. Did Jesus, being born in flesh, aquire sin? No He didn't, He looked like us, and was tempted in all points as we are, but without sin. He became sin, not as a result of being Mary's son.

I didn't mean Mary was a sinner (actively walking in sin) but that she had sinful human flesh and because all have sinned, we would have to say Mary must have sinned and therefore she was not immaculate. (I had to look up your reference to that doctrine in the Catholic excyclopedia) How does faith cleanse us? Are you equating cleansing with righteousness?

Does having sinful flesh mean someone is a sinner? Paul in Hebrews states that Jesus was made in all things like unto his brethren. Wouldn't that mean Jesus had the sinful flesh Paul speaks of in Romans 7? But I don't think it has to mean Jesus sinned just because he had sinful flesh?

[anapko]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I didn't mean Mary was a sinner (actively walking in sin) but that she had sinful human flesh and because all have sinned, we would have to say Mary must have sinned and therefore she was not immaculate. (I had to look up your reference to that doctrine in the Catholic excyclopedia) How does faith cleanse us? Are you equating cleansing with righteousness?

Does having sinful flesh mean someone is a sinner? Paul in Hebrews states that Jesus was made in all things like unto his brethren. Wouldn't that mean Jesus had the sinful flesh Paul speaks of in Romans 7? But I don't think it has to mean Jesus sinned just because he had sinful flesh?

Faith in Jesus...I understand our premise for salvation, but none of that is any good without faith. The Bible does state, "by faith are you saved", so if your saved by faith, then it only constitutes you are cleansed by faith. Faith in Jesus.

Second part, Jesus' flesh was not Divine Flesh as some preach, but like flesh as His humanity was a part of this family of flesh. Meaning, He was subject to what the nature of flesh is subject to, He hungered, He grew tired, He slept, etc. The God nature doesn't need these attributes. But Jesus did not subject Himself to sin. In all points He was tempted does not mean, He went ahead and sinned!

Lastly, we are getting away from this thread, all Mary contributed was a fleshly means to bring the Savior into this world.

Good questions

Bumb.....could someone answer me please...because I have wondered about this for a long time....

Originally Posted by Sister Truth Seeker

Such an incredible honor and such a terrible heart ache to be His mother...to watch Him tortured and crucified....what mother could handle that...I would have been just devastated had that been my son...

I always found it interesting that the bible talks of Joesph's lineage back to David and the birth line of Jesus...not Mary's when Joesph was not even related to Jesus by blood at all...or am I confused on that?


I think many give not enough credit and respect to the Mary the mother of Jesus. What a incredible woman she was!

[Coffee99]

Originally Posted by Sam

If you notice, the Orthodox icons of Mary do not show her alone, but with Jesus. She is known to them as the Theotokos or God bearer.

Sam, you are correct. The Orthodox always show her with Jesus and NEVER alone, even from earliest times I believe.

The RCC, on the other hand, very frequently have her on her own and it seems she is referenced as much or more than Jesus.

[Coffee99]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I didn't mean Mary was a sinner (actively walking in sin) but that she had sinful human flesh and because all have sinned, we would have to say Mary must have sinned and therefore she was not immaculate. (I had to look up your reference to that doctrine in the Catholic excyclopedia) How does faith cleanse us? Are you equating cleansing with righteousness?

Does having sinful flesh mean someone is a sinner? Paul in Hebrews states that Jesus was made in all things like unto his brethren. Wouldn't that mean Jesus had the sinful flesh Paul speaks of in Romans 7? But I don't think it has to mean Jesus sinned just because he had sinful flesh?

The RCC's immaculate conception doctrine is that Mary was BORN without sin - which it seems falsely places her on the same level as Jesus. It is one of many doctrines that the Eastern Orthodox believes is heretical with the RCC. The Orthodox believe that she was the first Christian and that she was the first person REDEEMED from sin by Jesus.

[Steve Epley]

Mary was at the cross and Pentecost. She went into the upper room as His mother and came out as His daughter.