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  #21  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:14 AM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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I mentioned my bill and pencil trick because I have to ask, what should my response if I saw someone like a minister, or guy on the street, performing that exact same trick and saying it was a legitimate "gift" from God?
Should it be "Sure, he is using the exact same two items, and moving his hands the exact same way, and going through the exact same arm movements BUT just because MY version is a trick doesn't mean that HIS is!"? Or should it be the obvious response of trying to expose him?
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:18 AM
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BoredOutOfMyMind BoredOutOfMyMind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
I mentioned my bill and pencil trick because I have to ask, what should my response if I saw someone like a minister, or guy on the street, performing that exact same trick and saying it was a legitimate "gift" from God?
Should it be "Sure, he is using the exact same two items, and moving his hands the exact same way, and going through the exact same arm movements BUT just because MY version is a trick doesn't mean that HIS is!"? Or should it be the obvious response of trying to expose him?
So are you simply denying there is a definate power of God to perform miracles?

Do you dismiss it as simply sleight of hand and smoke and mirrors?

Or do I read this post wrong?
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWayne View Post
I mentioned my bill and pencil trick because I have to ask, what should my response if I saw someone like a minister, or guy on the street, performing that exact same trick and saying it was a legitimate "gift" from God?
Should it be "Sure, he is using the exact same two items, and moving his hands the exact same way, and going through the exact same arm movements BUT just because MY version is a trick doesn't mean that HIS is!"? Or should it be the obvious response of trying to expose him?
If his dollar bill swallows up your dollar bill, then I guess his was the real deal!
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  #24  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:57 AM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
If his dollar bill swallows up your dollar bill, then I guess his was the real deal!
Exactly! And I was thinking of that very same thing when comparing "miracles" real versus fake.
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  #25  
Old 11-07-2007, 12:00 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind View Post
So are you simply denying there is a definate power of God to perform miracles?

Do you dismiss it as simply sleight of hand and smoke and mirrors?

Or do I read this post wrong?
Not at all. I believe cheap tricks are an insult to God. I have a very hard time He will perform a miracle that would be EASILY reproducible by a dozen different techniques.
The thing that stood out to me about the video that was posted was how Chris Angel knew exactly how this trick was performed (or at least many ways to do it) then instantly posed a challenge that he would give this guy a million if he simply told him (in detail) what was in the envelope. If this guys powers were real, he'd be a million dollars richer today.
And like the example I just mentioned of the torn dollar bill. If I encountered a minister performing that trick and claiming it was real, my first reaction would be to tell him to do it again.... but this time, give the bill to someone ELSE and see if he can "heal" the bill from a distance.

His GREATEST miracle after all, was the creation of the Universe. After that, its all "easy".
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  #26  
Old 11-07-2007, 02:16 PM
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Joseph Miller Joseph Miller is offline
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What is amazing to me is how many apostolics actually watch KA. I honestly don't feel that he is smoke and mirrors. My honest opinion of him is that he is the counterfit of the real. He does things that can not be explained, but it ain't of God.

Another thing I don't understand is why we question miralces because of some fake we ran into somewhere. The gifts of the spirit are real and are at work in the body today. The entire 5 fold ministry is working in the body today. Miracles are happening all the time. I know that some have made sport of these things and "worked" the crowd healing people of cancer, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc... when these people knew nothing about having these issues in their lives nor did they have any symptoms. Yet, the entire time there were people there that came for healing and had faith that God could heal them, but because praying for them would have "put the preacher on the spot" and made him look bad if nothing happened they never get prayed for. I think it is sad.

I have seen many miracles happen. I am amazed at the things God has done in the past and continues to do today in our revivals. I have had to learn, there will always be fakes. They will always build up their on reputation and kingdom. All I can do is focus on God, pray, fast, preach, and believe while leaving all the results up to God. I can't heal, I can't save, I can't bring deliverance. I can trust God and allow him to work through me though. If I pray for someone and they are healed, God healed them. If I pray for someone they are not healed, God has a reason and a time for all things, but I won't question the real because of the fakes.
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  #27  
Old 11-07-2007, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Miller View Post
What is amazing to me is how many apostolics actually watch KA. I honestly don't feel that he is smoke and mirrors. My honest opinion of him is that he is the counterfit of the real. He does things that can not be explained, but it ain't of God.

Another thing I don't understand is why we question miralces because of some fake we ran into somewhere. The gifts of the spirit are real and are at work in the body today. The entire 5 fold ministry is working in the body today. Miracles are happening all the time. I know that some have made sport of these things and "worked" the crowd healing people of cancer, high blood pressure, heart problems, etc... when these people knew nothing about having these issues in their lives nor did they have any symptoms. Yet, the entire time there were people there that came for healing and had faith that God could heal them, but because praying for them would have "put the preacher on the spot" and made him look bad if nothing happened they never get prayed for. I think it is sad.

I have seen many miracles happen. I am amazed at the things God has done in the past and continues to do today in our revivals. I have had to learn, there will always be fakes. They will always build up their on reputation and kingdom. All I can do is focus on God, pray, fast, preach, and believe while leaving all the results up to God. I can't heal, I can't save, I can't bring deliverance. I can trust God and allow him to work through me though. If I pray for someone and they are healed, God healed them. If I pray for someone they are not healed, God has a reason and a time for all things, but I won't question the real because of the fakes.
Great post!!

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  #28  
Old 11-07-2007, 03:02 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Miller View Post
What is amazing to me is how many apostolics actually watch KA. I honestly don't feel that he is smoke and mirrors. My honest opinion of him is that he is the counterfit of the real. He does things that can not be explained, but it ain't of God.
Actually everything he does can be explained. That is the whole point. He's not rushing out to tell anyone and everyone HOW he does some stuff -after all, what would be the point of watching his show if everyone knew how everything was done? BUT..... It IS all a trick and he himself lets people know it is JUST a trick and there are some who do know how it is all done.
The whole point of him being on Phenomenon is to give counterbalance to Uri who claims to have actual powers.
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:36 PM
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Joseph Miller Joseph Miller is offline
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:29 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Miller View Post
What is amazing to me is how many apostolics actually watch KA. I honestly don't feel that he is smoke and mirrors. My honest opinion of him is that he is the counterfit of the real. He does things that can not be explained, but it ain't of God.
KA is a magician and he is not the only one doing the tricks or illusions he is doing. He is just the only one that has packaged it the way he has. Before KA was doing it David Blane was out doing it in the streets and the levitatin bit.

What many don't realize is the camera angle is just right to fool the TV audience. The Camera only focuses in on the immediate audience that are in the right angle and being fooled and showing on their faces the "amazed" look while ignoring the others with the skeptical look.

Those levitation tricks are all explained too.
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