What does having the Holy Spirit mean?

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Boy oh boy, this is one topic I have wrestled with for years and only because I have had the wonderful experience of being close to Godly men that I don't think ever spoke in tongues.

I have known people with the tongues experience who were some of the most bitter, combative, caustic, and unbelivably painful to be around. Their fruit of the spirit were a small box of raisins left at the back of the drawer somewhere.

On the other hand my only hero in life, my grandfather, was a Oneness preacher for 40 some years and who to my knowledge never spoke in tongues.

He was a prince of a man and the finest Christian I have ever known. No one loved Jesus and had the true fruits of the spirit in his life like he did. They believed (the church I was in from birth to 15) that you received the Spirit when you were baptized in Jesus Name. When those family members who were in the UPC came to his funeral they couldn't answer the painful question because it was so difficult to reconcile and counterintuitive to what they had come to believe in comparison to the wonderful life my grampa lived.

No way, no way can I put my grampa in the hot place...otherwise the bible to me is only a history book.

Carp, what you have posted here is the deal in a nutshell.

The "evidence doctrine" (ED) as an exclusivity of the Spirit of Christ in the believer, would be all well and good.........if it fit reality. However, it doesn't and that is the fly in the ointment.

Those who preach the "ED", like I used to with a passion, must ignore or not be around those who exhibit the fruit of the spirit and have given their lives to Jesus Christ. I have heard every excuse why these people "can't" have the Spirit, but the fruit remains and Jesus stated that the believers would be known by their fruits.

If reality doesn't fit my interpretation of the scripture, then I need to re-examine my interpretation. Just like the "word of faith" teaching that you get what you claim by faith in regards to healing. Sounds good, but it doesn't fit reality. If it did, those churches would be packed and miracles would be happening by the thousands and thousands.

Carp, I have observed the same things you mention here, If people exhibit the all the fruit of the spirit just like those who speak with tongues with the exception of tongues, than how does that happen? Once again, we can't ignore reality.

The "ED" also puts godly people, martyred people, loving people, sacrificial people who have given thier lives unreservedly in hell. Sorry, that doesn't fit with reality in my world and I don't think it does in Jesus' world either.