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12-21-2007, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
This about the time he posts his "authoritative" list and basks in the glory of the logical fallacy of appeal to authority...
While ecstatically proclaiming "Read 'em and weep!"
Of course ... he can't deny that the best translation for eis is "with a view towards"
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"A view towards" is not the same as "because of". Because of looks back.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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12-21-2007, 08:12 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
God is ABLE to do anything he wants He is God however it is HE not I that gave the Apostles power to remit sins and told them how to do it. And they did it in water baptism is Jesus Name.
Jesus said remission of sins preached in His name would began at Jerusalem that is your problem NOT mine.
Water does NOT wash away sins anymore than water healed Naaman but faith in what the man of God said healed him of his leprousy when he dipped according to the SAYING of the man of God. Did that make the prophet a healer?
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The reference in John 20 isn't a reference to baptism. It's mirrored quite well in something Matthew wrote. Compare the two:
John 20:21-23
21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Matthew 18:15-18
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus is essentially referencing in John 20 what he had taught them earlier as found in Matthew 18. This has nothing to do with baptism.
We almost make preachers little popes. I fear we're becoming "Cathostolic".
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12-21-2007, 08:12 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
This about the time he posts his "authoritative" list and basks in the glory of the logical fallacy of appeal to authority...
While ecstatically proclaiming "Read 'em and weep!"
Of course ... he can't deny that the best translation for eis is "with a view towards"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh
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Here it comes .... gang way!!! 
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12-21-2007, 08:12 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
SH, are the Elder's remarks NEW TO YOU ???? Were you clueless to this "revelation"???
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Dan our problem has NEVER been what Christ accomplished on the cross you and I both know this our difference is HOW we appropriate what was made available on the cross. The cross is the crux of salvation and redemption through the Holy Blood of Jesus. You guys build a strawman. Why not just really say what we believe?
I have said over and over "That remission of sins in this dispensation only takes place in water baptism in Jesus Name for the penitent."
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12-21-2007, 08:13 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
SH, are the Elder's remarks NEW TO YOU ???? Were you clueless to this "revelation"???
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No not so new.... just not something my experience relates to.
I am shooting from a different perspective though.
I have a question for three steppers... When one sins and becomes repentant, post the three steps, on what grounds is he granted repentance?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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12-21-2007, 08:13 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila
The reference in John 20 isn't a reference to baptism. It's mirrored quite well in something Matthew wrote. Compare the two:
John 20:21-23
21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
Matthew 18:15-18
15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Jesus is essentially referencing in John 20 what he had taught them earlier as found in Matthew 18. This has nothing to do with baptism.
We almost make preachers little popes. I fear we're becoming "Cathostolic". |
John and Matthew are NOT the same setting.
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12-21-2007, 08:14 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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12-21-2007, 08:14 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Cathostolics vs. Bapticostals ... Friday night smack down on AFF!!!
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12-21-2007, 08:15 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
No not so new.... just not something my experience relates to.
I am shooting from a different perspective though.
I have a question for three steppers... When one sins and becomes repentant post the three steps on what grounds is he granted repentance?
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WHO is a three-stepper?????????????????????
Dan & Fudge has you confused?????????????????????????
I have NEVER preached 3 steps another strawman. I don't know if I ever heard anyone preach 3 steps. And I only remember reading one tract that said that.
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12-21-2007, 08:15 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Well he did tell the preachers to baptize and all NT baptisms recorded was done by preachers? Can laymen baptize? I won't fuss with you but there is NO scriptural prescendent for it.
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SE please show me where ALL NT baptisms were done by "preachers"..then while at it, define preachers using scriptures....
Then define layman using scriptures....the problem is it's not there. There is no special class division in scriptures of preachers/laymen (have nots)
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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