Doctrinal Question - Someone Please Take a Shot at This.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I seldom post here anyone and only lurk casually and this attitude reminds me why. The prevailent attitude against the doctrine of the Apostolic church is the banner of AFF it seems. Trinitarians are exalted even con men but Apostolic preachers and the doctrine are held in repute. I said sometime back I wondered if this had become an ex-Pentecostal site and it seems more and more it has become that. Just clearly my chest. You cannot even discuss doctrine without insulting your own heritage and roots and I find myself in a 'hog-butchering' mood which I don't like. I must reconsider my involvement on this forum.

Why is it when asked simple, real life questions, and confronted with other possibilities so many of these guys crumble and split? Running isn't an answer. No one here has questoined the necessity of repentance, water baptism in Jesus name, or the infilling of the Holy Ghost in the believer's full salvation experience.

What we are asking is a theological question...when are sins forgiven? You claimed it was at baptism. I'm just asking you to give rock solid evidence for your statement in light of the fact that so many of us received the Holy Ghost well before we were baptized. Remember...PCIers are saved just as you are. We're just believing that the process may be different. The Holy Ghost experience we had even testifies to a different process.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Scott I rarely post anymore and I enjoy the arguing. Dan, Adino and myself have argued til he cows came home and enjoyed it. But over time the attitude has gotten worse not better toward Pentecost in general and I find myself answering in kind. Then I feel bad because I am not a rude person. This topic interested me and I thought well we will fuss this again however I find myself getting upset NOT at the arguments of the Bible but rather insulting remarks made about Apostolic preachers and doctrine. And it is the NORM here. I ponder at the name Apostolic Friends Forum? I have discussed with posters on here of the PCI mentality and enjoyed it so I am NOT speaking of difference in doctrinal stances but attitudes.

Please forgive me if I've come off with an attitude. I'm just asking sincere questions and relating personal testimony with a tearful voice. If you're getting upset...maybe God is trying to talk to you.

Here's a question about something some have brought up here. How does your view differ from the doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration? Please be specific.

But most of all...please know I appreciate you dear elder. I'm going to retire for the evening to allow you to calm down and find your spiritual footing. We can talk tomorrow.

God bless you dear brother.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

He was wicked man wasn't he????????? That Trinitarian pastor you have now wouldn't have said nothing like that although he baptizes using Rome's formula.

Elder,
I would not say Bro. Curts was wicked.
He had lots of things said about him, lots of bad things, and lots of bad things by fellow Apostolic ministers, but I would not say he was wicked. I consider him a good man, and a wise man. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he taught.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Why is it when asked simple, real life questions, and confronted with other possibilities so many of these guys crumble and split? Running isn't an answer. No one here has questoined the necessity of repentance, water baptism in Jesus name, or the infilling of the Holy Ghost in the believer's full salvation experience.

What we are asking is a theological question...when are sins forgiven. You claimed it was at baptism. I'm just asking you to give rock solid evidence for your statement in light of the fact that so many of us received the Holy Ghost well before we were baptized. Remember...PCIers are saved just as you are. We're just believing that the process may be different.

For your information I have never ran and I have been posting and arguing since FCF. But this anti-Pentecostal attitude has finally reached a point I am fed up with. I don't know how long you have been posting since I am not here much anymore but no one has accused me of running.

[Brother Price]

The simplest answer to the whole of this is what I spoke of and realized in my last post...

Jesus Christ is God enough, sufficient enough, to save without man. If our salvation is based upon The Cross plus something else, then we have ceased being saved by His grace.

I believe that we should be baptized in Jesus' name. No man saved me. Christ saved me. His death on the Cross was enough, more than enough.

[Brother Price]

Oh, and BTW, in all these posts, no one has spoken against Pentecost. No one has come against the gifts or fruit of the Spirit. I have seen some ideas and notions challenged, and rightfully so.

There has been, IMHO, no anti-Pentecost posts in this thread.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Sam

Elder,
I would not say Bro. Curts was wicked.
He had lots of things said about him, lots of bad things, and lots of bad things by fellow Apostolic ministers, but I would not say he was wicked. I consider him a good man, and a wise man. But that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything he taught.

Sam I never met Elder Curts and you know he was not identified in anyway with the camp I am part of. He was considered a liberal by us back then. However he served as your pastor and he didn't deserve that remark. I think this forum has made you lose your sensitivity that you once possessed? That is the problem by attending a church that actually does not preach what you believe and then daily having the faith of your youth disected on this forum. If I have misspoken forgive me.

[berkeley]

Baptismal regeneration is the belief that baptism saves you. No faith required.

[Brother Price]

For by grace are we saved through faith, and not of works. It is a gift of God, lest any man should boast.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Scott I rarely post anymore and I enjoy the arguing. Dan, Adino and myself have argued til he cows came home and enjoyed it. But over time the attitude has gotten worse not better toward Pentecost in general and I find myself answering in kind. Then I feel bad because I am not a rude person. This topic interested me and I thought well we will fuss this again however I find myself getting upset NOT at the arguments of the Bible but rather insulting remarks made about Apostolic preachers and doctrine. And it is the NORM here. I ponder at the name Apostolic Friends Forum? I have discussed with posters on here of the PCI mentality and enjoyed it so I am NOT speaking of difference in doctrinal stances but attitudes.

I know I said I was going to bed...and I really am. LOL

But I wanted to say...I can tell you're not the kind of preacher so many here are talking about. Keep in mind...many of us here have been severely hurt by overly authoritarian preachers and pastors. If you can minister to the hurting...your ministry is cut out for you here.