Where are all the Acts 2:38 folks (3-steppers)??

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

I have not left the cross out. It was on the cross that he died for us. It was on the cross where he purchased our salvation.

It is on the Day of Pentecost that we see the plan of Salvation revealed. If some one is going to be saved they are going to repent, get baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost.

Peter says that baptism saves. There are things that happen in the spirit when we are baptized, but you MUST do the physical act for those things to happen.

To the 1 stepper baptism is just a religious traditon and how we do things, but in the Word of God it was a matter of salvation. Come on guys line up with the Bible again if your etenity is important to ya.

How does "baptism save us?" Is the water magical? Does the preacher's incantation dispell the hordes of demons trying to drag that soul into hades?

What is it about baptism that saves us? I thought that Peter spelled it right out in 1 Peter 3:21, but you didn't agree. So what does baptism do that "saves" us?

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Neither did he castigate them and accuse them of collusion with the devil.

For why else would they not have been baptized correctly and filled with the Holy Ghost? Obviously Paul was setting foot into a den of devils, a stronghold of Satan and every foul and evil work.

Just by being there Paul was putting himself "under question." He should have separated himself from these Gospel wannabes. Peter and James were correct for later questioning Paul's association with this Babylonish coven.

Pelathais, after all the good will, you feel the need to lob that granade at me? Et tu?


When is it ever proper to look at one who is hungry for God and accuse them of collusion with the devil? how sad!

[Thad]

Originally Posted by pelathais

How does "baptism save us?" Is the water magical? Does the preacher's incantation dispell the hordes of demons trying to drag that soul into hades?

What is it about baptism that saves us? I thought that Peter spelled it right out in 1 Peter 3:21, but you didn't agree. So what does baptism do that "saves" us?

who said water was magical?? never heard anyone say water saved us

[scotty]

This is the splitting hairs I talked about, Personally I think its a Pride issue

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Thad

who said water was magical?? never heard anyone say water saved us

NEITHER has anyone else. Just a Baptist strawman. Water did NOT heal Naaman but his healing took place in the water. Water did not make the blind man see but when he washed with water he recieved his sight. Water can never become wine but it was water that did become wine. God put water in the plan NOT man. To despise water is to despise God who put water in the plan. Surely NOT a laver of water?????????????????? What was God thinking??
Pour water on the altar???????????????? Put the baby Moses in water????
The Spirit of God moved on the face of the deep(WATER)??????
Kill the sacrifce over water????????? Wash the sacrifice with water?????
Wash the priest with water????????????? Out of His side water????????
The angel went into the pool of water????????????????
Remember God anything to do with water is works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ferd]

One might wonder why I actually care to engage in this discussion. In the first place it has been a great one…until Daniel decided I needed to get schooled on Acts 19 anyway.

More importantly I care because of something that happened a couple of weeks ago. Some folks at our church left. Now that happens from time to time. I get that. Ususally it doesn’t bother me at all. The last time someone left my pastor and I had a discussion about it. He (as was his way as a loving Sheppard) was upset and saddened by the departure. I told him rather abruptly they were leaving when they got to us!

That was true. They left some other church that wasn’t right and began to walk with us until they figured out what areas we needed to tighten up in. When pastor would not bend to their will, they left for greener pastures. No skin off my nose. We were really better for it.

But this time was different. This time, the father was a man who was a board member, the “titled” assistant to the pastor (although not on staff) and had held a license with the UPCI for 20 years before turning them in.

Several years ago he turned them in because he and his wife no longer believed in standards as taught by the UPCI. Still they walked with us… until a few weeks ago.

They left. They decided our doctrine was all wrong. Their destination? Well, they haven’t decided. They are deciding between 2. There is a really big non-denominational church they like. Kind of a charismatic feel. The other is the local Baptist church in their neighborhood.

There you have it. The wife was raised with an OP background. The husband well versed in scripture. Over the last 3 to 4 years, they got smarter than us and have decided to join some local Trinitarian church and really don’t care of the Holy Ghost shows up in the place or not.

So. There you have it. To me, this discussion means something. Being Pentecostal means something. I spent years working with these folks kids. Now what? I am sick and angry. Some of you may say its ok, they will be saved…yadda yadda.. what ever. They have WALKED AWAY from truth. I don’t care what you believe. I don’t care you say I am harsh. I don’t care. These folks have walked away and are raising their kids AWAY from truth. I love these people. Don’t think I don’t. I would be at their house in 15 minutes if they called and needed me, with no strings attached. But I am heart sick. DOCTRINE MEANS SOMETHING.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Ferd

Pelathais, after all the good will, you feel the need to lob that granade at me? Et tu?

When is it ever proper to look at one who is hungry for God and accuse them of collusion with the devil? how sad!

I'm sorry it came across as a "grenade" there, Ferd. I certainly didn't have you in mind. I was hoping the cartoons at the end would show that I also had a light hearted intent.

It's just that you have to agree that my TIC post does fairly represent the way many OP's would approach a group of people who worship in the fashion that the disciples of John did that you cite. How many people with the spirit and potential Apollos have we hindered from entering into our ranks?

It is a fact that many times when we approach people in this condition we are ostracized by our own brethren. I baptized a Church of Christ pastor in Jesus name several years ago and then helped him to baptize his entire congregation.

I ended up getting hammered for compromise because I didn't first demand that they all speak in tongues before I agreed to baptize them (only a few went on to get the Holy Ghost). But the man approached me. Should I have turned him out into the street?

The "collusion with the devil" accusation is exactly the charge that we have laid against people who were sincere in their hunger for the things of God, but who didn't pray through in our altars.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'm sorry it came across as a "grenade" there, Ferd. I certainly didn't have you in mind. I was hoping the cartoons at the end would show that I also had a light hearted intent.

It's just that you have to agree that my TIC post does fairly represent the way many OP's would approach a group of people who worship in the fashion that the disciples of John did that you cite. How many people with the spirit and potential Apollos have we hindered from entering into our ranks?

It is a fact that many times when we approach people in this condition we are ostracized by our own brethren. I baptized a Church of Christ pastor in Jesus name several years ago and then helped him to baptize his entire congregation.

I ended up getting hammered for compromise because I didn't first demand that they all speak in tongues before I agreed to baptize them (only a few went on to get the Holy Ghost). But the man approached me. Should I have turned him out into the street?

The "collusion with the devil" accusation is exactly the charge that we have laid against people who were sincere in their hunger for the things of God, but who didn't pray through in our altars.

With the clarification comes understanding. Pelathias, I agree that we do at times eat our own, in situations like this. TFT would surely agree with you.

I however, come from the same church as TFT. That kind of thinking isnt part of my 'Postolic DNA.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I'm sorry it came across as a "grenade" there, Ferd. I certainly didn't have you in mind. I was hoping the cartoons at the end would show that I also had a light hearted intent.

It's just that you have to agree that my TIC post does fairly represent the way many OP's would approach a group of people who worship in the fashion that the disciples of John did that you cite. How many people with the spirit and potential Apollos have we hindered from entering into our ranks?

It is a fact that many times when we approach people in this condition we are ostracized by our own brethren. I baptized a Church of Christ pastor in Jesus name several years ago and then helped him to baptize his entire congregation.

I ended up getting hammered for compromise because I didn't first demand that they all speak in tongues before I agreed to baptize them (only a few went on to get the Holy Ghost). But the man approached me. Should I have turned him out into the street?

The "collusion with the devil" accusation is exactly the charge that we have laid against people who were sincere in their hunger for the things of God, but who didn't pray through in our altars.

Again this is generalizing, who ever hammered you for that was wrong,

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Thad

who said water was magical?? never heard anyone say water saved us

So it's would be a pretty easy question to answer, right?

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

NEITHER has anyone else. Just a Baptist strawman. Water did NOT heal Naaman but his healing took place in the water. Water did not make the blind man see but when he washed with water he recieved his sight. Water can never become wine but it was water that did become wine. God put water in the plan NOT man. To despise water is to despise God who put water in the plan. Surely NOT a laver of water?????????????????? What was God thinking??
Pour water on the altar???????????????? Put the baby Moses in water????
The Spirit of God moved on the face of the deep(WATER)??????
Kill the sacrifce over water????????? Wash the sacrifice with water?????
Wash the priest with water????????????? Out of His side water????????
The angel went into the pool of water????????????????
Remember God anything to do with water is works!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess it's not so easy to answer- no answers yet.

And did you just call me a "Baptist?" Weren't you one of the ones who complained loudly about being called "Catholic" or "Mormon" and the like?

While you're throwing snowballs around, why don't you take a stab at the question? What is it about baptism that saves us? Again, Peter comes right out and declares it in 1 Peter 3:21, but that doesn't appear to line up with your theology. Or am I wrong? How does baptism "save" us?