Romans 10:9 - Page 18

#**171** 01-04-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Miller

Dan you are wrong. For remission of sins one MUST be baptized in Jesus name.

So after baptism and you sin Joseph do you have to be baptized again if baptism is the only place where you get your sins forgiven?

Of course not. All you have to do is confess. You see, the blood has always been applied at confession/asking for forgiveness. If you confess your sins, he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

mizpeh · #**172** 01-04-2008, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh, you are correct. The imputation comes through faith in Christ alone. It was God's promise of the coming Messiah Abraham believed. The testimony of the Father is of Christ. Imputation comes when we accept the testimony God gave of his Son. It was Abraham's faith in the coming Christ which was imputed to him for righteousness.

Abraham's heir was Isaac. He believed God for the promise of a son, Isaac. The verses you quoted, well, I just don't see them as a prophesy of Christ or that Abraham's faith was in Christ. From what I understand Abraham had righteousness imputed to him because he believed the promise of God. It was that simple. His faith was not in Christ, Christ wasn't even born, but his faith was in God being able to do what He says He will do.

At least that's how I've always understood it.

Praxeas · #**173** 01-04-2008, 10:35 PM

are there two kinds of faith? faith in Christ to be saved and faith in God that he exists?

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

mizpeh · #**174** 01-04-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Btw, how a person can be in right standing with God and yet be in wrong relationship is beyond me. Yes, he can be under the umbrella of God's righteousness and still have faults, but his relationship is not something yet to be established. It is the right relationship (not our personal rightness) which brings the imputation of righteousness. It is a relationship established by a loving TRUST.

We come into right standing with God when we come into a right relationship with him by faith alone.

Are you talking to me?

mizpeh · #**175** 01-04-2008, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

are there two kinds of faith? faith in Christ to be saved and faith in God that he exists?

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Faith in the Son of God is different than faith in God. The Son of God is God existing as a man and whose blood was shed on the cross.

Praxeas · #**176** 01-04-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Faith in the Son of God is different than faith in God. The Son of God is God existing as a man and whose blood was shed on the cross.

So my question is what does faith in God bring as opposd to faith in christ? How CAN God hear your prayers before you had faith in Christ having only faith in God?

Praxeas · #**177** 01-04-2008, 11:02 PM

BTW Abraham was justified by faith....justified when he believed God...justified when he left his old land and gods...justified when went to Moriah....see when it comes to salvation it speaks of being saved past tense...being saved present tense and will be saved future tense...it also speaks of salvation by faith alone apart from works before anything else...salvation from repentance. salvation from water baptism....

I think the western mind tries to hard to figure it all out instead of just accepting it. That is why I tell folks like christopher that I don't know of so and so was saved or not. The Thief on the cross was saved....not baptized or speaking in tongues....nor did he get down and offer a goat or a lamb or turtle dove or anything else...just hanging there with faith....had he survived he would have had to be baptized too...

Why do we need to quantify it all and comprehend it all and not rather just obey it all?

mizpeh · #**178** 01-04-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adino

Mizpeh, YES forgiveness and imputation of righteousness are connected. We are forgiven because the righteousness of Christ (the righteous blood of Christ) has been sprinkled on the altar and is imputed to us. We enter into this forgiveness by faith in the work of Christ.

How did you put together the highlighted sentence? What scriptures support this? Sin and righteousness can be imputed but I think somewhere in that sentence you've put together two separate ideas, the blood of Christ and the righteousness of God that is imputed to us by faith in Christ.

Quote:

Our faith in Christ's resurrection is a faith in the fact that God has accepted the work of sin remission performed by Christ on the Cross. He was the Lamb who took away the sins of the world. If God had not accepted the sacrifice.... Christ would not have been resurrected. The Good News in the death, burial and resurrection is that the resurrection proves God has forgiven us through Christ. It proves that Christ's work was effective.

Thank you so much....this may help explain 1 Peter 3:21, a verse I've been struggling to understand.

I'll have to get back to the rest of your post later.

Praxeas · #**179** 01-04-2008, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Are you talking to me?

Do you drive a taxi?

mizpeh · #**180** 01-04-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

So my question is what does faith in God bring as opposd to faith in christ? How CAN God hear your prayers before you had faith in Christ having only faith in God?

Prax,

I'm saying I didn't have righteousness imputed unto me when I prayed to God before I repented and became a Christian a good 6 months later.

I don't know how He heard my prayer because God doesn't hear the prayer of a sinner but He did. I would like to think because He was visiting me one last time in mercy.