JEWS!

[TRFrance]

[quote=Praxeas;377724]

Originally Posted by Revelationist

If they believed the Old Testament, they would be Christians....

There is a difference between believing in the OT as being writings inspired by God (which Jews do),
as opposed to believing all of what the OT says, (which Jews do not).

So you took things off on a tangent, but my earlier point remains: Hindus and Muslims do not believe in the Old Testament. Jews do.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by scotty

ah, so Moses wasn't the only one.......so.....they could have believed in others ?..........

Seems that way doesn't it.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

There is a difference between believing in the OT as being writings inspired by God (which Jews do),
as opposed to believing all of what the OT says, (which Jews do not).

So you took things off on a tangent, but my earlier point remains: Hindus and Muslims do not believe in the Old Testament. Jews do.

darn , you cut me off,...lol

I was going there but was going to let them lead themselves to it ...lol

[Sister Alvear]

I rejoice that Jews are coming to know Christ as Lord and Savior.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I rejoice that Jews are coming to know Christ as Lord and Savior.

It is a beautiful miracle, isn't it?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

Are the Jews still looking for a Messiah?

Yeah, and they still did not believe Moses. You are disagreeing with Jesus, Rev. Not me. Jesus said that IF THEY believed Moses they would have believed Him. They can look for whatever they want, but if they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

They lost the meaning of JEW, then. Again, Jews themselves say these things I claim.

Thats nice and all but we aren't talking about eschatology. I never said Jewish was a culture or that Judaism was a culture. I said it has become a part of THEIR culture. Your website was some jews claiming Judaism was not a culture. If you look at ANY culture you can see how their religion has become a part of it or influences it. Middle Eastern culture has a lot of Islamic in it. South American has a lot of Roman Catholicism in it. For many it is a part of their National/Social/Ethnic identity. Most RCs and Muslims are BORN into a family of that religion and not converts.

That is why, as I said, many Jews who are Atheists can still call themselves Jews....am I trying to say they are right? See...that is irrelevant. I am simply pointing out that even in the bible believing Jews kept the law and even Paul did. And the Gentiles were told to keep certain parts too because Moses was read in every city. The point is that there were still many Jews unconverted and were being told that Paul told them they had to abandoned Moses and that it would be hard to bring Jews into churches with Gentiles as long as they are eating food with blood and offered to idols.

So I repeat that I think YES a Jew who converts should still keep the law so they can win more Jews and they should use the ceremonies like the Ceder celebration to point them to Christ. That is the bottom line.

BTW While not keeping the law in practice we DO use it to lead others to Christ don't we? The law is good if used Lawfully.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Yeah, and they still did not believe Moses. You are disagreeing with Jesus, Rev. Not me. Jesus said that IF THEY believed Moses they would have believed Him. They can look for whatever they want, but if they believed Moses they would have believed Jesus.

You didn't answer the question. But others answered it for you. Correctly, I might add.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Thats nice and all but we aren't talking about eschatology.

Who said we were? The fact remains that JEW is a religious term and people can and have turned away from the true meanings, just as gentiles think JEW is a race. But the fact remains that the term is a covenantal term. And we cannot go by what people have distorted terms into, but what they actually mean, since God is involved here. What is God's view of it all? After all, we are talking about Jews who get saved by God's salvation.

I never said Jewish was a culture or that Judaism was a culture. I said it has become a part of THEIR culture.

I know. But you overlook what I said. I said that their culture IS their religion. That is so whether they distrted its tenets or not.

Your website was some jews claiming Judaism was not a culture. If you look at ANY culture you can see how their religion has become a part of it or influences it. Middle Eastern culture has a lot of Islamic in it. South American has a lot of Roman Catholicism in it. For many it is a part of their National/Social/Ethnic identity. Most RCs and Muslims are BORN into a family of that religion and not converts.

The website was JUDAIC. Judaists know what these things actually refer to, whether cultural distortions of these things occurred or not. But I am still trying to understand your angle here. Bear with me.

That is why, as I said, many Jews who are Atheists can still call themselves Jews....am I trying to say they are right? See...that is irrelevant.

I think I see the difference between our thoughts. I am speaking of actualities and God's perspective, since we are talking about what GOD thinks jewish converts should or should not do. You are taking it from the angle of people's erring perspectives, and how we should work with them. Ultimately, God's will is that we seek to win all. And God does not desire anyone to retain shadows in rituals once He has given the Body. Is it wrong to use them in order to reach Jews? No. Paul did! But we are discussing the idea of whether or not people should CONTINUE in these shadows once saved. Some here claim that they SHOULD due to cultural retention. I claim that is refusing, intentionally or not, to look at things from God's perspectives concerning covenants.

I am simply pointing out that even in the bible believing Jews kept the law and even Paul did.

Why did they keep it, though? What did God will for them in this?

And the Gentiles were told to keep certain parts too because Moses was read in every city. The point is that there were still many Jews unconverted and were being told that Paul told them they had to abandoned Moses and that it would be hard to bring Jews into churches with Gentiles as long as they are eating food with blood and offered to idols.

So I repeat that I think YES a Jew who converts should still keep the law so they can win more Jews and they should use the ceremonies like the Ceder celebration to point them to Christ. That is the bottom line.

I always agreed with you about this. So why do you refute me when I say they should not do it for personal needs due to their culture, aside from reaching other Jews? I agree every time you say it should be done to win other jews. Are you implying you agree they should due so aside from desire to win jews, as though they had personal needs as former jews? that is what it sounds like, since I have agreed with you every time concerning using law to win souls.

BTW While not keeping the law in practice we DO use it to lead others to Christ don't we? The law is good if used Lawfully.

I do not think that is what Paul meant in speaking that statement to Timothy. Paul only meant that if one was under law, one should not use it foolishly with genealogies and fables, as the context states, and instead use it as it was designed to be used... as a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Jews who rejected Christ obviously had not used Law lawfully. That is the context, I think.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

You didn't answer the question. But others answered it for you. Correctly, I might add.

I did answer. I said YEAH, and qualified the point, though. Did you not read, "Yeah"?