------The Parousia of Jesus Christ----------

[TK Burk]

REV, keep up the great posts!

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

REV, keep up the great posts!

Thank You!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Brother Blume,
I'm confused with these thoughts.

Reading Rev's comment above - "The earth was reaped before the judgment on Jerusalem!"

I'm reading Matthew 13:30, with the thought that the wheat and tares grow together.



Does Rev 14 and Matthew 13 tie in together? Where do the tares stand as opposed to the dead in the book of Rev.?

First of all, I cannot see any dead who were reaped in either Rev 14 or Matt 13.

The reaping is a good thing. Before Jerusalem was destroyed, people who believed Jesus had fled to Pella and escaped the destruction 3.5 years later. So the reaping occurs before the destruction.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

At least you are consistant in being wrong! Here is the 3rd post on this thread by Lost & Found....

All these claims that I am wrong, with no scriptural support, are so overwhelmingly convincing, I am not sure if I can be a partial preterist a minute longer.

A simple answer is: “YES!”

Look at this:

Acts 1:9-11
9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Here Jesus is said to be coming in “like manner” as they saw Him go. They did not see a horse or throne at Jesus’ ascension.

Who said they did see a horse? This coming is not the coming of AD70. You assume too much.

That makes this passage problematic if each of these occurrences were to ‘literally’ take place at Jesus’ Parousia. Since God’s Word is always in agreement one with another, we need to look to see how these do agree. The first step in this is to ask whether the issue in Acts 1 is the ‘cloud’ or is it the way in which Jesus departed? If it is the ‘cloud,’ then the ‘horse’ and ‘throne’ conflict; but if it’s about the way Jesus ascended, then we find agreement. This conformity comes when one sees the ‘cloud,’ ‘horse,’ and ‘throne’ are not speaking of literal instances, but are instead referring to biblical imagery.

Jesus physically arose and a cloud physical removed Him. This is yet future. People can say EVERYTHING the Acts detailed in association with Christ's departure, indicated to occur when He returns, will not occur when He returns, all they wish.

But the details of 1 Cor 15's DEMAND that the BODY be understood as to physically CHANGE deny everything about FP. And since Christ DID leave in a physical body, and we do not read it was abandoned afterwards, who is to say Acts 1:11 will not occur with Christ's return? Literal repetition of Acts 1:11 is verified as yet to actually occur because of the details of 1 Cor 15's references to OUR BODIES being changed. Christ will VISIBLY return.

Saying LIKE MANNER refers not to the list of details purposely mentioned around Acts 1:11, is preposterous!

Acts 1:9-11 KJV And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

If the text read, Acts 1:9-11 KJV And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up gloriously in authority (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

...then you might have a point. But when we read IN LIKE MANNER, we are to notice the details. And the details agree with 1 Cor 15's emphasis of VISIBILITY in His return and our resurrection.

This is the same hermeneutic used elsewhere when interpreting the meaning of the prophetic language of the Bible.

So your answer is; each of these is in agreement with what would occur during Jesus’ coming. The ‘cloud’ is glory; the ‘horse’ is war; the ‘throne’ is authority. To see this simply look up how the Bible already uses these images in prophetic language. The Bible always interprets itself if a person is willing to study it through.

You cannot dismiss other passages that clearly refute your premise, just because they refute your premise. 1 Cor 15 is so plain about bodies, that everything else around it must be complicatingly distorted to convince anyone of anything else.

Sorry, your posts are not great. Explanations that violate common reasoning of how all other passages must fit the scheme are only seen to be pedantic ramblings. Phil 3:21 ruins the whole premise you propose.

My land, brother. All you did was see how WHITE THRONE can be leaped through hoops to become synonymous with WHITE CLOUD and WHITE HORSE. And you could not show any dead being reaped in Rev 14. Think about that, compounded by the plain reading of CHANGED bodies in 1 Cor 15.

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Rev

Thank You!

You're quite welcome.

This subject is so simple to understand and confirm through Scripture. It’s astonishing how some cannot – or maybe will not – see it.

And regardless what some may think, you’re definitely providing scriptural evidences for your points.

Keep posting!

[Rev]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

You're quite welcome.

This subject is so simple to understand and confirm through Scripture. It’s astonishing how some cannot – or maybe will not – see it.

And regardless what some may think, you’re definitely providing scriptural evidences for your points.

Keep posting!

"It’s astonishing how some cannot – or maybe will not – see it."

You nailed it right there! This is what they need.....

(Rev 3:18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Can you show a blind man the sun? I think not!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Lost and Found

You're quite welcome.

This subject is so simple to understand and confirm through Scripture. It’s astonishing how some cannot – or maybe will not – see it.

And regardless what some may think, you’re definitely providing scriptural evidences for your points.

Keep posting!

I disagree. 1 Cor 15 is so plain about bodies being CHANGED, and is completely absent from your teachings, brethren. To say the body that decays is not the body that CHANGES into an immortal one, but stays in the earth upon burial when ANOTHER body apart from it is given at death is to violate all plain reading in 1 Cor 15. Sorry. Plain reading is plain reading. THAT is what you folks, albeit good brethren, refuse to see. You blatantly deny 1 Cor 15's CHANGE of body.

Pat each other on the backs all you want. But you deny 1 Cor 15's CHANGED body. You guys need to debate me on the issue of the CHANGED BODY.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I disagree. 1 Cor 15 is so plain about bodies being CHANGED, and is completely absent from your teachings, brethren. To say the body that decays is not the body that CHANGES into an immortal one, but stays in the earth upon burial when ANOTHER body apart from it is given at death is to violate all plain reading in 1 Cor 15. Sorry. Plain reading is plain reading. THAT is what you folks, albeit good brethren, refuse to see. You blatantly deny 1 Cor 15's CHANGE of body.

Pat each other on the backs all you want. But you deny 1 Cor 15's CHANGED body. You guys need to debate me on the issue of the CHANGED BODY.

You are wrong about the ressurrection also.

But, stay with the theme of the thread.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Rev

You are wrong about the ressurrection also.

So you claim.

If Paul said the BODY CHANGES from mortal to immortal, then the dead mortal body is not thrown away for a different body at death, that is not a changed body apart from the mortal one. Again, you deny 1 Cor 15's changed body teaching.

But, stay with the theme of the thread.

This is part of the theme since the resurrection occurs at the White Throne judgment. Dealing with EVERYTHING what occurs at a given reference, such as resurrection at the great white throne, helps explain how you are right or wrong about the time of the white throne judgment being when you say it is.

[Rev]

Originally Posted by mfblume

So you claim.

If Paul said the BODY CHANGES from mortal to immortal, then the dead mortal body is not thrown away for a different body at death, that is not a changed body apart from the mortal one. Again, you deny 1 Cor 15's changed body teaching.

This is part of the theme since the resurrection occurs at the White Throne judgment. Dealing with EVERYTHING what occurs at a given reference, such as resurrection at the great white throne, helps explain how you are right or wrong about the time of the white throne judgment being when you say it is.

"Again, you deny 1 Cor 15's changed body teaching."

Wrong again! Consistence thou art a jewel.

I don't deny it! I deny it was in 70AD.



You also do not understand this scripture.....

(1Co 15:50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God;