Stirring up the gift is praying through in tongues, Scotty ... where do you see that?
Just in general , tongues is one of many gifts is it not? Thats all I meant...
You still feel the need to comment argumentively on everything I post no matter the thread>?
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
How can he give His Spirit to a person or group that hasn't even taken His name?
Bump
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFrance
Jesus said the Holy Ghost is supposed to lead us into all truth (John 16:13). Therefore we know that having full truth is not necessarily a requirement to receive the Holy Ghost.
__________________ You can't reach the world with your talents. People are sick and tired of religious talents. People need a Holy Ghost annointed church with real fruits to reach out and touch their lives. ~ Pastor Burrell Crabtree
In fact I think that the insinuation of "hateful" Pentecostals is coming mostly from the fertile imaginations of bitter, backslidden ex Apostolics who are constantly trying to find a way to justify their actions. ~ strait shooter
How can he give His Spirit to a person or group that hasn't even taken His name?
Knowledge of baptismsal forumla is not a requirement to be filled with the Holy Ghost. Neither is knowledge of proper godhead doctrine.
The biblical requirements are repentance and faith. The remaining knowledge is supposed to come afterward.
As we know, even when someone walks into a Oneness church, repents and is filled with the Holy Ghost at the altar, they often don't know much about baptismal formula... that is taught to them by the church members; and they usually know little or nothing about godhead doctrine -- again that is taught to them afterward. It seems fairly clear that accurate knowledge of doctrine is not something God has set as a requirement for the infilling of His spirit.
Now for example if a person receives the HG (in a Trinitarian environment) and still chooses to not accept Jesus name baptism, that is their doing. The scriptures demonstrate Jesus name baptism very clearly. But that's not to say they cant be carried away with man-made doctrines and traditions. Likewise, if they choose to believe the "3-eternal persons in the Godhead" doctrine, again, thats on them. The Holy Ghost never leads anyone to believe in Trinitarianism and/or baptism into God's titles, rather than His name.
The key is that the HG is to lead us into all truth. He doesn't force us -- he leads us into it; but that, of course, requires that we allow ourselves to be led. Not everyone allows themselves to be led into truth... or some are so comfortable in their spiritual comfort zone they're in that they find it hard [or are reluctant], to break away from the traditions that they are surrounded in, in their church environment.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
I knew someone raised in the AOG that was baptized in Jesus name IN that AOG church
It happens .
I know someone who told me they baptize in Jesus' name in his COGIC (Chuch of God In Christ) church also.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
My wife grew up AoG and was baptized by immersion in a river (hey, some hard core apostolics DO insist that it be moving water!), but was probably baptized in the titles -with Jesus's name being thrown in as well.
Is the promised outpouring of the Spirit confined to those churches who hold a Oneness Pentecostal theology?
Can we conclude that all "tongues" experiences outside of Oneness Pentecostalism are fake?
What would it do to our theology if we could, somehow, conclude that a large portion of these experiences are real?
My opinion:
1) Is the promised outpouring of the Spirit confined to those churches who hold a Oneness Pentecostal theology?
Answer: No
2) Can we conclude that all "tongues" experiences outside of Oneness Pentecostalism are fake?
Answer: No
3) What would it do to our theology if we could, somehow, conclude that a large portion of these experiences are real?
Answer: We could react several ways.
We could figure God is mercifully drawing them into THE TRUTH as we see it.
We could figure God is more interested in their heart than their head.
We could figure God's theology is different than ours,
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
Is there a global revival, apart from Oneness Pentecostalism, going on right now?
How can that be?
Maybe Oneness Pentecostals do not hold an exclusive franchise on the distribution of the Holy Spirit and His gifts. Maybe people can go directly to God and not come to us.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
This is from a booklet called "The Charismatic Movement, Renewal or Confusion?" which I received from Pastor James Lee Beall quite a while ago (in the 1960's or maybe in the early 1970's). He was pastor of Bethesda Missionary Temple in Detroit, MI. This church was considered "Latter Rain," "Oneness Pentecostal," or "Apostolic Pentecostal" depending on your viewpoint. In this portion he describes his attitude toward "Charismatics," and tells of being invited to participate in one of their meetings.
---------------
Religious Superiority
It is relatively simple to sit back and criticize every and all religious groups. If you want something to offend you, it will be easily found.
When the Lord God first began to pour the Holy Spirit upon segments of the organized church --the Catholics, the Baptists, the Episcopalians, etc., I sat back to criticize. Believe me, I found plenty that I did not consider right or proper.
How superior I felt as I sat in my detached ivory tower pointing out the wrongs committed by others! There is no feeling quite like that which comes with religious superiority. It is like the eye saying to the hand, "I have no need of you."
...It is my personal opinion that the charismatic renewal has brought segments of the religious world to needed areas of maturity. For the first time in years and years, men and women of different persuasions are able to sit down and talk without cutting one another to pieces. We have ceased being afraid of one another.
My First Charismatic Conference.
Some years back I was invited to one of the major U.S. cities to take part in a city-wide charismatic conference. This was the first for me and I wasn't sure that I wanted to go.
I gave the matter some thought and prayer. Inwardly I knew it was the right step for me. I accepted the invitations and left for the meetings.
What I saw in the initial services made me a little uneasy. Hundreds of people were in attendance with clergymen of all backgrounds.
During the course of this dinner-meeting,the religious community was invited to stand and identify themselves. To my surprise, the Roman Catholics --priests and nuns-- were in the majority.
I could not believe they were really interested in knowing about the baptism in the Holy Spirit and what God was doing spiritually all over the world. I had come to believe that Roman Catholics and Episcopalians were such dyed-in-the-wool sacramentalists that personal spiritual experiences were of little or no interest to them. In that meeting, I began to get the sneaky hunch that I might have been wrong.
The day after the initial dinner-meeting we conducted our services in one of the local church buildings. My responsibility was to speak morning and evening.
Following my teaching on the baptism in the Holy Spirit that evening I invited those who were interested to stand and express their interest in this way. About half of that audience responded.
The church sanctuary was completely filled so I asked those seated in the right front section to move toward the rear if they were not interested in further instruction and prayer for the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Finally, we got everyone settled again.
There in the first rows were Roman Catholic priests and nuns, along with other ministers and workers from various churches. I didn't know exactly what I ought to do.
The reason for my quandry was that I knew the Lord had no intention of filling these people with the Holy Spirit. They belonged to the wrong churches and I was not even sure of their salvation. There was no other step to be taken except that of instruction. This I did with the intention of eventually leading them to prayer.
In my prayer I led these seekers to repeat after me. My prayer would be a request for the forgiveness of sins and the confession that we were fully aware that there was one mediator between God and man, the Lord Jesus Christ. I was going to make Protestants out of all these Catholics if I possibly could. After all, this was the only way they could receive something from the Lord.
Mixed Reactions
While I was praying with my eyes closed, my prayer was interrupted. Someone was singing and praising God in another language. In a few minutes, others joined in.
When I opened my eyes to see who it was who was being filled with the Holy Spirit, i was amazed to find the majority of them were obviously Roman Catholics. My reactions were mixed. I was happy for them, while at the same time puzzled. How could this happen? What did it all mean?
The next day the entire scene broke in on me again. All I could say was, "God did it!" I did not lay my hands on them. No one gave them words to say nor did we initiate anything.
God evidently did not care if they were protestants or Catholics and He did not keep the Spirit from them because they wore clerical clothes. The Lord God looked down into the hearts and saw the hunger there. Not a hunger for things, or experiences, or gifts --just a deep and singular hunger and thirst for Him. He mets the hungry and satisfies their mouth with good things. Make no mistake about this.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
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