Hell Bound? Says who???

[RevDWW]

Revelation 21:1 - Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Note: It's man's choice to determine his destination.

There are two components to overcoming:
Gods part - the blood of the lamb
Our part - The word of our testimony

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Note: It's man's choice to determine his destination.

Riiiight. Everyone in hell will be there by their own choice. A fully informed decision. They were given all the facts, and decided "I choose hell, thank you."

Uh huh.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Timmy

Riiiight. Everyone in hell will be there by their own choice. A fully informed decision. They were given all the facts, and decided "I choose hell, thank you."

Uh huh.

Romans 2:10 - 16 (KJV) 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Hall 'righteous judgment' says:
"If our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost." 2Cor. 4:3 Was Paul arrogant?
Paul said even if an angel from Heaven.......was he arrogant?
John said he that is of God heareth us 1Jn.4:6-8
I believe you are honest and sincere however you are expousing pluralism.
Noah's message not only saved the 8 but condemned the world. Heb.11:7

First, you’re quoting a translation that you believe was translated by men who were blind to the truth. Please quote from an Apostolic English translation.

Second, you mistaken the “gospel” for being Acts 2:38. That’s not the gospel. The gospel is the “good news”. What is the good news? That Jesus died, was buried, and rose again to redeem us from our sins. Acts 2:38 only presents repentance, water baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. These are actions taken to apply the gospel to one’s life. There are many who are not blinded as to the gospel…they just misunderstand how to apply it and need to be nurtured into the way more perfectly.

Let’s look at men like Wesley. Wesley experienced deep repentance from sin, our holiness standards are largely based on early Holiness standards as understood and taught
by Wesley. Wesley sought to obey the Word of God by being water baptized and was water baptized. However, no one really understood the difference between using the name of Jesus and the titles. Their interpretation was that “in the name of” meant, “in the authority of”. So in a sincere and obedient heart Wesley was water baptized, howbeit in the only way they knew. Wesley also experienced deep spiritual ecstasy with weeping, sobbing, and unintelligible groaning in prayer. Wesley affirmed the doctrine of the Trinity, however he also admitted that there were contradictions that indicate that the nature of God was beyond their understanding. You have to remember…these guys couldn’t go down the street to the local UPCI church. This was all there was available to them. But notice, John Wesley had repented, was water baptized, and may have even experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost. He may have beheld a glimpse of the truth in how he recognized contradictions in the Trinity. His only error…he was subject to the prevailing tradition of baptism in titles. Do you really think God is going to send John Wesley to a burning Hell? God may hit the buzzer and all of Heaven groan as God says,

“I’m sorry John, thanks for playing. You won the first round on repentance and you even won the bonus of the Holy Ghost baptism though you didn’t know what it was; but you missed the double jeopardy round of baptism, John. Yes you did your very best according to all you understood, but sorry…a third person didn’t speak the right formula above you as you were water baptized. For all your faith and obedience you will win an eternal trip to a burning Hell where you’ll experience torments for all eternity. Let’s give a big round of applause for John Wesley ladies and gentleman!”

Please READ what Jesus said Bro. Epley…

Luke 12:47-48
“{12:47} And that servant, WHICH KNEW HIS LORD’S WILL, and prepared not [himself,] neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes. ]{12:48} BUT HE THAT KNEW NOT, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes.] For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

Notice something…Jesus is addressing corporal punishment not death sentence. Not an eternal incarceration or eternal torment. This is a disciplinary action. In short…this is the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ. Notice these are both “servants”. Both are believers. However, one is an Apostolic who sneaks around looking at unclean things on the internet though he knew his master’s will is that he remains pure. But here’s John Wesley, he KNEW NOT the entirety of his master’s will. Understood repentance and even had the baptism of the Holy Ghost. He even lived a more separate lifestyle than most Apostolics do today. His only problem…he didn’t KNOW that his water baptism should have been in the name of Jesus. He didn’t KNOW the depths of Oneness doctrine though he struggled with the contradictions of the doctrine of the Trinity. Who do you feel is going to face the harshest judgment?

Jesus clearly teaches the fullness of truth…but then tells us that unto whom much is given…much is required.

Noah’s message warned the world. And I’d wager that out of the 8 that were saved, at least one of them didn’t have the depth of understanding Noah had.

See, the gospel you preach is Repentance, Water Baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling. BUT THAT’S NOT THE GOSPEL. Paul tells us what the gospel is….

“{15:1} Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; {15:2} By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. {15:3} For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; {15:4} And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” – I Corinthians 15:1-4

The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Acts 2:38 only expresses how that Gospel was applied to the believer’s life.

Are you preaching the Gospel the Apostles preached…or is this hidden from you as you preach applications, modes, and formulas as being our savior?

I love ya Bro. Eply…but I think you’re putting the cart before the Horse. You’re also assuming that what you understand is the bar by which all men will be measured and judged.

I believe you are honest and sincere however you are expousing pluralism.

I will not specifically say that one outside of the truth is definitely saved. Nor will I say that they are definitely lost. I am secure enough in what I believe to allow God to be their judge. However, if one wants to know how to be sure they are saved, I teach that they must believe in the Gospel and obey Acts 2:38.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

First, you’re quoting a translation that you believe was translated by men who were blind to the truth. Please quote from an Apostolic English translation.

Second, you mistaken the “gospel” for being Acts 2:38. That’s not the gospel. The gospel is the “good news”. What is the good news? That Jesus died, was buried, and rose again to redeem us from our sins. Acts 2:38 only presents repentance, water baptism, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. These are actions taken to apply the gospel to one’s life. There are many who are not blinded as to the gospel…they just misunderstand how to apply it and need to be nurtured into the way more perfectly.

Let’s look at men like Wesley. Wesley experienced deep repentance from sin, our holiness standards are largely based on early Holiness standards as understood and taught
by Wesley. Wesley sought to obey the Word of God by being water baptized and was water baptized. However, no one really understood the difference between using the name of Jesus and the titles. Their interpretation was that “in the name of” meant, “in the authority of”. So in a sincere and obedient heart Wesley was water baptized, howbeit in the only way they knew. Wesley also experienced deep spiritual ecstasy with weeping, sobbing, and unintelligible groaning in prayer. Wesley affirmed the doctrine of the Trinity, however he also admitted that there were contradictions that indicate that the nature of God was beyond their understanding. You have to remember…these guys couldn’t go down the street to the local UPCI church. This was all there was available to them. But notice, John Wesley had repented, was water baptized, and may have even experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost. He may have beheld a glimpse of the truth in how he recognized contradictions in the Trinity. His only error…he was subject to the prevailing tradition of baptism in titles. Do you really think God is going to send John Wesley to a burning Hell? God may hit the buzzer and all of Heaven groan as God says,

“I’m sorry John, thanks for playing. You won the first round on repentance and you even won the bonus of the Holy Ghost baptism though you didn’t know what it was; but you missed the double jeopardy round of baptism, John. Yes you did your very best according to all you understood, but sorry…a third person didn’t speak the right formula above you as you were water baptized. For all your faith and obedience you will win an eternal trip to a burning Hell where you’ll experience torments for all eternity. Let’s give a big round of applause for John Wesley ladies and gentleman!”

Please READ what Jesus said Bro. Epley…



Notice something…Jesus is addressing corporal punishment not death sentence. Not an eternal incarceration or eternal torment. This is a disciplinary action. In short…this is the Judgment Seat of Jesus Christ. Notice these are both “servants”. Both are believers. However, one is an Apostolic who sneaks around looking at unclean things on the internet though he knew his master’s will is that he remains pure. But here’s John Wesley, he KNEW NOT the entirety of his master’s will. Understood repentance and even had the baptism of the Holy Ghost. He even lived a more separate lifestyle than most Apostolics do today. His only problem…he didn’t KNOW that his water baptism should have been in the name of Jesus. He didn’t KNOW the depths of Oneness doctrine though he struggled with the contradictions of the doctrine of the Trinity. Who do you feel is going to face the harshest judgment?

Jesus clearly teaches the fullness of truth…but then tells us that unto whom much is given…much is required.

Noah’s message warned the world. And I’d wager that out of the 8 that were saved, at least one of them didn’t have the depth of understanding Noah had.

See, the gospel you preach is Repentance, Water Baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling. BUT THAT’S NOT THE GOSPEL. Paul tells us what the gospel is….



The Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. Acts 2:38 only expresses how that Gospel was applied to the believer’s life.

Are you preaching the Gospel the Apostles preached…or is this hidden from you as you preach applications, modes, and formulas as being our savior?

I love ya Bro. Eply…but I think you’re putting the cart before the Horse. You’re also assuming that what you understand is the bar by which all men will be measured and judged.



I will not specifically say that one outside of the truth is definitely saved. Nor will I say that they are definitely lost. I am secure enough in what I believe to allow God to be their judge. However, if one wants to know how to be sure they are saved, I teach that they must believe in the Gospel and obey Acts 2:38.

The man has more than one gospel. Wesley preached the gospel? Luther preached the gospel. And Pope Benedict I suppose preaches the gospel.
Sir if repentance alone saved anyone in the church age it saves today. Then why not confessing from the heart to the priest at confesssional?
Only the gospel preached by the Apostles saves. That and that alone.
Wesley-Luther-Graham-Osteen-Benedict all preach another gospel. Thus they are cursed.
I hate to pull the book on you about this judging but here it is:
"the WORD that I have spoken , the SAME shall judge him in the last day."
Jn. 12:48
"In that day whne God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL." Rom. 2:16
I am happy to be judged by that single standard that shall judge all men not emotions.
By the way I have nothing against Elder Bernard but he is not my standard.

[ChristopherHall]

Perhaps I’m not explaining my point well enough. Rev. David K. Bernard, a leading apologist of the United Pentecostal Church International wrote:

“God alone will judge the salvation of each person
(Romans 2:16; Hebrews 12:23). No human being can condemn
a soul to hell or guarantee him a place in heaven, for
salvation is a matter between the individual and God.
The Lord taught us not to judge each other, but to
judge ourselves and leave the judgment of others to God
(Matthew 7:1-5; Luke 6:37). Jesus did not come to condemn
the world but to offer salvation (John 3:17), and we
should do likewise. We should proclaim the gospel,
encourage obedience to it, and warn of the biblically prescribed
consequences for disobedience, but the final
results rest in God’s hands.”
– David K. Bernard, The New Birth Experience

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by ChristopherHall

Perhaps I’m not explaining my point well enough. Rev. David K. Bernard, a leading apologist of the United Pentecostal Church International wrote:

Bro. Hall I have not passed PERSONAL judgment on anyone. However I can say what the Bible says.
If 2Cor. 4:3 offends you take it up with Paul

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Bro. Hall I have not passed PERSONAL judgment on anyone. However I can say what the Bible says.
If 2Cor. 4:3 offends you take it up with Paul

If one is drawn to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus...the gospel isn't hidden from them. However, tradition often hinders them from seeing the way the Apostles applied this gospel, i.e. Acts 2:38. Just like there are Apostolics who believe the gospel, have obeyed Acts 2:38, but tradition clouds there judgment regarding holiness.

[Ferd]

I am FOR the Gospel!

[ChristopherHall]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

The man has more than one gospel. Wesley preached the gospel? Luther preached the gospel. And Pope Benedict I suppose preaches the gospel.

The GOSPEL is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ to provide our salvation. How can you remove JESUS from salvation? I’m beginning to think you’re the one who has denied the Gospel because it seems you don’t even know what it is. Acts 2:38 is the complete RESONSE to the Gospel.

You asked if Wesley preached the gospel? Answer: Yes. Wesley believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

Luther? Yep. Luther also believed and taught the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

The Pope? Yep. He too preaches the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

These men go wrong with how they preach a soul should respond or apply this gospel to their lives.

Sir if repentance alone saved anyone in the church age it saves today. Then why not confessing from the heart to the priest at confesssional?

Bro Eply…where did I ever say that repentance alone saved anyone? In fact I’ve only stated that I will not claim that we can be certain that a non-Apostolic is saved…also I cannot state for certain that they are condemned. I leave that judgment to God. I firmly believe that if you want to be saved for sure…obey Acts 2:38. I gave a Bible study to a Baptist friend of mine. After I was through he said, “So the Bible says that I can’t be a Baptist and be saved?” I just smiled and answered, “Last I heard Baptists don’t gamble.” One young man asked me, “But what about my grandfather? Was he lost?” I said, “I’m not God and I don’t judge the soul. But I do know that we are to judge ourselves according to this word. Have we obeyed what it teaches? That’s what will matter at the judgment.”

Preach the truth. Condemn false doctrine. Leave the judgment of the soul to God. I assure you…we don’t know EVERYTHING about this Word. God will not judge mankind by what WE understand. God grades on a knowledge curve. We see this in the parable of the servants wherein one knew the master’s will and the other didn’t. Unto whom much was given…much was required.

Only the gospel preached by the Apostles saves. That and that alone.

Let’s resolve this immediately. Is the “GOSPEL” the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ; yes or no?

Wesley-Luther-Graham-Osteen-Benedict all preach another gospel. Thus they are cursed.

They never taught the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus? (Please note: I'm not saying they were saved. This is a theological question.)

I hate to pull the book on you about this judging but here it is:
"the WORD that I have spoken , the SAME shall judge him in the last day."
Jn. 12:48
"In that day whne God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL." Rom. 2:16

Bro…I love ya. I have to pull the book on you too…

What is the Gospel? It is WRITTEN:

“{15:1} Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; {15:2} By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. {15:3} For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; {15:4} And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:” – I Corinthians 15:1-4

The GOSPEL is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. We know that anyone who denies this has denied the foundation of the faith.

Does God judge Christians according to their knowledge and obedience or a set blanket standard? It is WRITTEN:

Luke 12:47-48
“{12:47} And that servant, WHICH KNEW HIS LORD’S WILL, and prepared not [himself,] neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many [stripes. ]{12:48} BUT HE THAT KNEW NOT, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few [stripes.] For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.”

I am happy to be judged by that single standard that shall judge all men not emotions.
By the way I have nothing against Elder Bernard but he is not my standard.

But apparently YOUR understanding of the Bible is??? Wow. You better know all things, yes even the fullness of truth…for if you don’t you’re in trouble. Because you will be judged by the measure by which you judged others.

Do you know all truth Bro. Eply? Is all mankind subject to being judged according to what YOU believe about the Bible’s message? After all…you repeatedly mistaken Acts 2:38 for being the good news, thereby cutting out the work of Christ to focus on the work of man. The good news (GOSPEL) is what God through Christ has done for us…Acts 2:38 is the proper response to that Gospel. Acts 2:38 isn’t “the Gospel” as you suppose.