Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Sept5SavedTeen

I am a former SDA, and there's a sister in my assembly who is also a former SDA, and we joke about our time with that group and our sabbath keeping.

Antipas,
I DO believe in the "spiritual sabbath" as you say. I believe ALL the moral Law has been magnified and "spiritualized" if you will. It's not "Thou shall not commit adultery" it's "Thou shalt not lust" for me, and it's not "Thou shall not murder" it is "Thou shall not hate thy brother", this is what has happened with the Ten Commandments, and as for #4, I now find my rest in Christ. I don't even try to argue with sabbath keepers about Sunday, because Sunday has no special significance. Worship on Saturday or Sunday if you want, it doesn't matter. Rest from your labor when you desire, as long as you are not "resting" all the time, which would be lazy, and a Christian wouldn't want to be lazy anyways. And rest spiritually knowing that Christ did HIS work on the cross and nailed the Law to the cross!

GOD BLESS!
Bro. Alex

Interesting answer.

[Antipas]

Due to economic hardships I've had to cut internet services at home. I can only respond before work, during breaks, and after work. Forgive me if I'm not responding quickly.

Again thanks...you guys are helping me out.

[Antipas]

There seems to be some confusion over what I’m encountering with my friend who is a Sabbath keeper. Here’s what he’s telling me…

God ordained the Sabbath long BEFORE the Law,

Genesis 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

He states that the seventh day is blessed and sanctified as a day of rest from the creation. He then goes on to explain that God placed man in the garden and Adam essentially observed the Sabbath rest with the Lord. I stated that I didn’t think we have any evidence of that. He then brought up Cain and Able and asked me why they were performing sacrifices…we have no indication of them ever being taught sacrifice or the practice being an ordained practice either but it was. So he states that from Genesis 2:3 we can conclude that God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath and, like the institution of marriage, that it was observed from creation. He also indicates that it was like tithing, tithing existed long before Abraham….though he’s technically the first in Scripture used to illustrate the principle. His argument is that if God blessed and sanctified the seventh day it was observed…and even if it wasn’t observed it was still blessed and sanctified to be observed. But he points out that in every culture and religion there is a weekly “rest” and that this is a trace of the original commandment given to ALL mankind. This is, “the LORD’s day” or “the LORD’s Sabbath” and is eternally binding on mankind. The only thing required of it was that no industrious work is performed and the day be kept holy (separate for worship).

He then explains that thousands of years later, after mankind had neglected monotheism, the Sabbath, and true faith God revives true faith through Abraham and then God blesses the seed of Abraham. Israel was then taken into captivity and for the most part lost much of their identity in Egypt. God raises up Moses to deliver them. God issues the Ten Commandments, which are eternal MORAL LAWS, that re-establish God’s foundational moral principles of holiness. Due to the Israelite’s Egyptian influence God then has to give additional Laws through Moses to preserve them as a nation and as a people, keeping them separate from the pagan peoples around them. So God delivers the various “Sabbath Laws” through Moses on how he expects the nation to observe his Sabbaths. However, the Sabbath was never meant to be made into “legalism” but God issued decrees to deter industriousness, bringing the people to “rest” and calling them to let go of their materialism and turn toward the Him in worship.

He then states that Jesus died on the cross and fulfilled the law, but God’s eternal moral Law (the Ten Commandments) are binding. Now all men are free from the burdensome laws of the Law of Moses and are just expected to keep the fourth commandment through resting and worship on the seventh day.

He claims that Paul’s reference to esteeming days in Romans 14 is in relation to cultural holidays seeing that Gentiles and Jews were clashing over the Jewish holidays. Colossians 2 is viewed as addressing the “sabbath days”, or better, these feast days (which are regarded as ‘sabbaths’) not the eternal Sabbath.

He believes that the early church’s preaching and teaching in the synagogues on the Sabbath illustrates the early practice among the first Christians. He doesn’t claim that they never met on the “first day” but rather claims that they kept the Sabbath as a primary day of observance. He states that this was customary in Christianity until the Catholic Church shifted the focus away from the seventh day claiming it was a “Jewish Sabbath”. However he’d remind me that the seventh day isn’t a Jewish Sabbath…it’s an eternal Sabbath sanctified by God for all men since the creation. There’s nothing inherently Jewish about the seventh day, unless one appeals to the Law of Moses, who’s laws were only binding on Israel.

[mfblume]

...talk about arguments from silence! Your friend, though sincere, does this too much.

Gal 4:10-11 flat-out refers to ANY holy days of Judaic elementary teaching, which Paul said was ONLY for the Israelites to lead them to Christ in pre-AD times, and meant bondage again for Gentiles who were formerly under bondage in idolatry. He was not speaking of pagan feast days. Context from Gal 3 proves that.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Circumcision also isn't an issue of the Ten Commandments. It's important to separate the Law of God (the moral law - Ten Commandments) from the Law of Moses (social and ceremonial laws).

First of all I raised the issue of circumcision because you raised the issue of the sabbath proceeding the law. Second of all you have failed to prove that we have to keep the entirety of the 10 commandments.

Third of all I have made many many MANY important arguments against yours....and I am still waiting for a reply

[Praxeas]

Antipas

I addressed everyone of your arguments point by point and have yet to see a response. I think the evidence is overwhealming that your argument is not a good one and your counter argument about argument from silence is a false argument

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Circumcision also isn't an issue of the Ten Commandments. It's important to separate the Law of God (the moral law - Ten Commandments) from the Law of Moses (social and ceremonial laws).

the bible doesn't define the law of God as the 10 commanments and the law of moses as the other 603. The law is referred synonymsly (sp?) as the law of God in some passages, the law of moses in others, the law, the ordaninces,etc.

Also you mentioned in another post tithing before the law. That is not a good argument, seeing how the new testament doesn't say a word to gentiles about tithing either. coincidence? i don't think so.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Circumcision also isn't an issue of the Ten Commandments. It's important to separate the Law of God (the moral law - Ten Commandments) from the Law of Moses (social and ceremonial laws).

I have to ask where does the bible say there are two laws? Where does the bible say if there are the separation is the 10 commandments and everything else? You know the rest of the law speaks of the Sabbath...is Homosexuality ok since the 10 commandments did not specifically mention them but the rest of the law did?

Also it sounds like you are saying there was no new commandment...there was just a subtraction from the old (the ceremonial laws from everything else)

And if this is your argument about the 10 commandments do you still agree we should stone the adulterer to death?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

...talk about arguments from silence! Your friend, though sincere, does this too much.

Gal 4:10-11 flat-out refers to ANY holy days of Judaic elementary teaching, which Paul said was ONLY for the Israelites to lead them to Christ in pre-AD times, and meant bondage again for Gentiles who were formerly under bondage in idolatry. He was not speaking of pagan feast days. Context from Gal 3 proves that.

I think so too. Especially when he argues that the Sabbath was observed prior to the Law. However, this is the same argument proposed by those who advocate tithing based on Abraham's tithe, an apparent one time tithe. But he does make a good case here....the Bible doesn't tell us how or where Cain and Able got the notion of offering sacrifices unto the Lord. Clearly there were teachings and practices they had embraced that the Word doesn't tell us much about. One could argue that Sabbath observance is one of them...especially seeing that God "sanctified" it in the Creation. Think about it...the fact that God sanctified the seventh day as the Sabbath wouldn't be of any significance unless it reflects the origin of most ancient practice. Also the argument that most ancient faith traditions have embraced a seventh day sabbath in their religions since premitive times does tend to point to the argument that these practices originated with a "divine original". For example, consider the "flood story". Nearly every religion has a "Noah"...this indicates that among these varied stories...there was a divine original.

It may also be important to note that my good friend believes that those of Anglo-Saxon decent are decendants of Ephriam, who were assimilated into the peoples shortly after Medo-Persia fell to the Babylonians, and are therefore Israelite. I asked him about those living in Israel today and he explained that they are primarily from the tribe of Judah.

Maybe that's why he feels that the Decalogue is a covenant to be embraced.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

First of all I raised the issue of circumcision because you raised the issue of the sabbath proceeding the law. Second of all you have failed to prove that we have to keep the entirety of the 10 commandments.

Third of all I have made many many MANY important arguments against yours....and I am still waiting for a reply

This is complex because I do not fully understand the seventh day position. I can't address everyone of your arguments point by point. My primary issue is the Ten Commandments. I firmly believe that they are an eternal moral law and should be distinguished from the Law of Moses that were specifically for Israel.

As for the Ten Commandments under Grace we read from Paul:

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

This would indicate that the law of loving God with all one's heart is the foundation of the elements of the Ten Commandments that describe how God desires to be worshipped. God never "sanctified" the first day, he specifically sanctified the seventh from the beginning. One could ask, do we think God was just speaking for his health or to impress us, or was this foundational to how God (who never changes) desires worship?