Baptismal Regeneration? - Page 7

bkstokes · #61 05-23-2008, 08:28 PM

It just occured to me -- IS TRFRENCH -- Talmadge French? Hey if it is -- I got your book man. I like the cover! Thanks for categorizing all of the oneness people as well.

bkstokes · #62 05-23-2008, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

In the first part you said you would prefer a one stepper to answer, then in the latter part you asked for a three stepper explanation.

As a one stepper, my explanation is as follows. Philip is called an evangelist, actually the only person called an evangelist in our New Testament. Philip had a way of preaching that got folks saved. He also had a ministry of healing and miracles. But, did not seem to have a ministry of ministering the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism). In Acts 8 it speaks of all the folks who were saved, healed, delivered, and baptized in water but they had not received the HGB. Peter and John were sent down from the Jerusalem assembly to minister the HGB to those folks. Later in the chapter Philip was sent into the desert. He obediently went. Someone has dubbed this "from Samaria to the Sahara." When he came upon an Ethiopian Eunuch the Spirit told him to "go near and join (stick to, adhere) to his chariot. He accepted the invitation to come up into the chariot and began to explain the portion of Scripture (Isaiah chapter 53) the Ethiopian was reading and "preached unto him Jesus" (Acts 8:35). They came to some water, probably the Wadi el-Hesi north of Gaza and the eunuch requested baptism. Philip did not want to baptize someone who was not converted so he stated, "If you believe with all your heart, you may be baptized." The eunuch made a profession of faith, "I believe that Jesus is the Messiah and is the Son of God." Based on this confession of faith, the chariot was stopped, and they both went down into the water, and he (Philip) baptized him (the eunuch). Then, according to some old manuscripts, the story continues. "And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord fell upon the eunuch, and the angel of the Lord snatched Philip away..." So, it seems that the eunuch received the HGB in the water without the customary laying on of hands.

True, true Sam

I also must watch my tongue in cheek remarks. Thank you for reminding us.

Sam · #63 05-23-2008, 08:34 PM

I have a book by Talmadge L. French titled, "Our God is One."
I don't know if he is the TRFrance posting here.

bkstokes · #64 05-23-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I have a book by Talmadge L. French titled, "Our God is One."
I don't know if he is the TRFrance posting here.

Yes that is who I am talking about. I thought it might because it is not a common last name. However, Talmadge French says that he is a greek expert (heard a couple of his sermons on the Name), so I am sure if it was him he would throw some greek on us.

TRFrance · #65 05-23-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

Bro. French,
I don't know if you are UPC or not, but when the UPC was originally formed allowance was made for both doctrinal stands that we now call "one-step" and "three-step" on these forums. The idea was that "one-steppers" and "three-steppers" would respect one another and fellowship one another. Over the years the "three-steppers" marginalized the "one-steppers" and tried to silence them or squeeze them out. This pretty well happened through the revision of fundamental doctrine statement in 1973 and then the affirmation statement in 1992. I'm sure there are many "closet" one-steppers in the UPC but they are afraid to let it be known for fear that they will be considered heretics. This is not the original intent of the elders who established the UPC over 60 years ago.

Today in 2008, as a "one-stepper" I need to remind myself that these old timers in 1945 meant for "one-steppers" and "three-steppers" to get along together and to respect one another. Some times in my posts I act as poorly as some of the "three-steppers" have over the years. That attitude isn't right. Nor is it right to respond in the same manner that I as a one-stepper have been treated.

No argument here, Sam.

Unfortunately, there are some among us who seem to display a win-at-all-costs over-aggressiveness you might expect to see in a bunch of high school debaters.

If everyone here took on the same attitude and tone as you do on this forum, the atmosphere around here would be a whole lot better.

Blessings.
TRF

(And for the record, yes I am UPC)

TRFrance · #66 05-23-2008, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkstokes

It just occured to me -- IS TRFRENCH -- Talmadge French? Hey if it is -- I got your book man. I like the cover! Thanks for categorizing all of the oneness people as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I have a book by Talmadge L. French titled, "Our God is One."
I don't know if he is the TRFrance posting here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkstokes

Yes that is who I am talking about. I thought it might because it is not a common last name. However, Talmadge French says that he is a greek expert (heard a couple of his sermons on the Name), so I am sure if it was him he would throw some greek on us.

I must say I found it somewhat amusing reading that stuff.

Anyway,for the record... no, I'm not Talmadge French.

SDG · #67 07-21-2008, 09:47 AM

bump for luke

stmatthew · #68 07-21-2008, 10:01 AM

I do not believe that water baptism = regeneration. I believe when one is born again (water and spirit) that they are regenerated.

Thoughts???

Sam · #69 07-21-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I do not believe that water baptism = regeneration. I believe when one is born again (water and spirit) that they are regenerated.

Thoughts???

So, you believe that
-water baptism (properly administered) equals born of water
-the Holy Ghost Baptism equals born of the Spirit.
-both baptisms together equal the one new birth (these two are one)
and
-since water baptism (birth of water) is only a partial rebirth experience, it cannot be called baptismal regeneration.

I think that is the opinion of quite a few Oneness Pentecostals.
I don't think I have misstated it.

So, are people who have been baptized in water but not in the Spirit called brother or sister? and would they go to heaven if they died in that condition?
And, are people who have been baptized in the Spirit but not (properly) in water called brother or sister? and would they go to heaven if they died in that condition?

Ron · #70 07-21-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Thank you Encryptus. At least YOU see the point I was making.
As you pointed out, I made it clear that I had no desire to debate the doctrine itself, but I've found that for some folks, that's not enough...

That's why I actually try to limit my comments on certain topics here.

What I have found is that there are some among us who seem to almost live for these topics to come up, so they can come out of the woodwork and lecture us on how wrong the "3-stepper" salvation doctrine is. Clearly some of these people here have have an agenda, and frankly, I cant really be bothered arguing with them any more. I've heard virtually all their arguments, and find them unconvincing and flawed. I'll let them suck some other unsuspecting person into their vortex of endless and circular debates. As for me, I'll just sit on the sidelines and watch.

When it comes to the essentials of Bible doctrine, I already know what I believe; I have nothing to prove to them, and am not going to be convinced by what they're trying to prove to me and the rest of us.

Blessings.

I missed this post before, it is good.