Where is the Revival we have been waiting for?

[Sam]

I posted this earlier in this discussion (post no. 59) but thought I would post it again.
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This is from a booklet called "The Charismatic Movement, Renewal or Confusion?" which I received from Pastor James Lee Beall quite a while ago (in the 1960's or maybe in the early 1970's). He was pastor of Bethesda Missionary Temple in Detroit, MI. This church was considered "Latter Rain," "Oneness Pentecostal," or "Apostolic Pentecostal" depending on your viewpoint. In this portion he describes his attitude toward "Charismatics," and tells of being invited to participate in one of their meetings.
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Religious Superiority

It is relatively simple to sit back and criticize every and all religious groups. If you want something to offend you, it will be easily found.

When the Lord God first began to pour the Holy Spirit upon segments of the organized church --the Catholics, the Baptists, the Episcopalians, etc., I sat back to criticize. Believe me, I found plenty that I did not consider right or proper.

How superior I felt as I sat in my detached ivory tower pointing out the wrongs committed by others! There is no feeling quite like that which comes with religious superiority. It is like the eye saying to the hand, "I have no need of you."

...It is my personal opinion that the charismatic renewal has brought segments of the religious world to needed areas of maturity. For the first time in years and years, men and women of different persuasions are able to sit down and talk without cutting one another to pieces. We have ceased being afraid of one another.

My First Charismatic Conference.

Some years back I was invited to one of the major U.S. cities to take part in a city-wide charismatic conference. This was the first for me and I wasn't sure that I wanted to go.

I gave the matter some thought and prayer. Inwardly I knew it was the right step for me. I accepted the invitations and left for the meetings.

What I saw in the initial services made me a little uneasy. Hundreds of people were in attendance with clergymen of all backgrounds.

During the course of this dinner-meeting,the religious community was invited to stand and identify themselves. To my surprise, the Roman Catholics --priests and nuns-- were in the majority.

I could not believe they were really interested in knowing about the baptism in the Holy Spirit and what God was doing spiritually all over the world. I had come to believe that Roman Catholics and Episcopalians were such dyed-in-the-wool sacramentalists that personal spiritual experiences were of little or no interest to them. In that meeting, I began to get the sneaky hunch that I might have been wrong.

The day after the initial dinner-meeting we conducted our services in one of the local church buildings. My responsibility was to speak morning and evening.

Following my teaching on the baptism in the Holy Spirit that evening I invited those who were interested to stand and express their interest in this way. About half of that audience responded.

The church sanctuary was completely filled so I asked those seated in the right front section to move toward the rear if they were not interested in further instruction and prayer for the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Finally, we got everyone settled again.

There in the first rows were Roman Catholic priests and nuns, along with other ministers and workers from various churches. I didn't know exactly what I ought to do.

The reason for my quandry was that I knew the Lord had no intention of filling these people with the Holy Spirit. They belonged to the wrong churches and I was not even sure of their salvation. There was no other step to be taken except that of instruction. This I did with the intention of eventually leading them to prayer.

In my prayer I led these seekers to repeat after me. My prayer would be a request for the forgiveness of sins and the confession that we were fully aware that there was one mediator between God and man, the Lord Jesus Christ. I was going to make Protestants out of all these Catholics if I possibly could. After all, this was the only way they could receive something from the Lord.

Mixed Reactions

While I was praying with my eyes closed, my prayer was interrupted. Someone was singing and praising God in another language. In a few minutes, others joined in.

When I opened my eyes to see who it was who was being filled with the Holy Spirit, i was amazed to find the majority of them were obviously Roman Catholics. My reactions were mixed. I was happy for them, while at the same time puzzled. How could this happen? What did it all mean?

The next day the entire scene broke in on me again. All I could say was, "God did it!" I did not lay my hands on them. No one gave them words to say nor did we initiate anything.

God evidently did not care if they were protestants or Catholics and He did not keep the Spirit from them because they wore clerical clothes. The Lord God looked down into the hearts and saw the hunger there. Not a hunger for things, or experiences, or gifts --just a deep and singular hunger and thirst for Him. He mets the hungry and satisfies their mouth with good things. Make no mistake about this.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Sam

AMEN!!!!!

I received the HGB on May 20, 1956 at Bethel Tabernacle UPC in Racine, Wisconsin. I attended one year 1956/1957 at the Apostolic Bible Institute in St. Paul, MN. I attended a UPC church here in the Cincinnati area from 1957 until some time in the early nineteen sixties. Then I attended an ALJC church from that time until I left in 1978 or maybe 1979. During that time I was a licensed minister at different times with three different organizations --The Church of Jesus Christ; The Church of Jesus Christ Pentecostal Faith; and the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ. As we heard and read about people known as the Jesus People or the Jesus Freaks, and then later on folks called Charismatics we looked down our righteous noses at them. This couldn't be real. They didn't look like us. They didn't dress like us. They didn't baptize like us. They didn't believe like us. The didn't come to us to receive the Holy Ghost Baptism. We thought we had the exclusive franchise for God's Spirit. They went directly to God with hunger and thirst in their hearts, and, as He promised, He filled them. It took a while for this to soak through my hard head and my proud heart. God is pouring out His Spirit on ALL flesh, not just UPC, PAW, CoJC, ALJC, AMF, GIB flesh, but all flesh just like He said in His Word.

Good post! Me thinks that our hunger for revival has been out weighed by our hunger to see it our way. Our hunger for revival no matter the cost or even the look about it has faded to the point is almost nothing more than a cliche'. I read in the Bible that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. I also read that He changes not. Yet I also read that He does a new work. How can He be the same and yet do something new? Something new suggests doing something that has not been done before. I have come to believe that His makeup isone of changing and doing new things. If He is not a saviour and God that can or will do things new then He is then a liar. That is due to the fact He does a new work. I beleive that He is always doing something new. He is a God that changes things. To think that God will always do things like He has always done it IS NOT SCRIPTURAL. Infact what is scriptural is that HE WILL DO A NEW THING. Again I ask are we like the Jews when Jesus came? As they sat and waited for a Messiah and missed him are we sitting here waiting for a BIG revival to come? When God is known for doing a new thing are we trying to keep His ways in a box that we have built based on how He moved in the past? I think this movement is falling short here....and I love this movement.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

Good post! Me thinks that our hunger for revival has been out weighed by our hunger to see it our way. Our hunger for revival no matter the cost or even the look about it has faded to the point is almost nothing more than a cliche'. I read in the Bible that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. I also read that He changes not. Yet I also read that He does a new work. How can He be the same and yet do something new? Something new suggests doing something that has not been done before. I have come to believe that His makeup isone of changing and doing new things. If He is not a saviour and God that can or will do things new then He is then a liar. That is due to the fact He does a new work. I beleive that He is always doing something new. He is a God that changes things. To think that God will always do things like He has always done it IS NOT SCRIPTURAL. Infact what is scriptural is that HE WILL DO A NEW THING. Again I ask are we like the Jews when Jesus came? As they sat and waited for a Messiah and missed him are we sitting here waiting for a BIG revival to come? When God is known for doing a new thing are we trying to keep His ways in a box that we have built based on how He moved in the past? I think this movement is falling short here....and I love this movement.

Lets make sure that we stay in context when we use a scripture. The "New Thing" that God spoke of in the old testament was the New Covenant.

[Margies3]

This is probably pretty simplistic viewing, but I saw something tonight that I just have to comment on.................

Walt and I drove past First Apostolic Church in Toledo at 9:15 this evening (Sunday evening) and it was completely dark with not a car in the parking lot. I told Walt that back in the day, church would have just been getting going at 9:15! I can't believe they're closed up, locked up and gone home already.

I guess that it's that kind of thing that tells me that revival is a long way off here. Back when, we were so hungry for God that we would stay and tarry and seek His face until He moved. Sometimes for hours. Sometimes days, sometimes weeks! Today, if God hasn't moved by 8:00, forget it. We have to get home to get ready for work tomorrow. I wonder if God even feels He's welcome and wanted anymore?

Just my thoughts.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Margies3

This is probably pretty simplistic viewing, but I saw something tonight that I just have to comment on.................

Walt and I drove past First Apostolic Church in Toledo at 9:15 this evening (Sunday evening) and it was completely dark with not a car in the parking lot. I told Walt that back in the day, church would have just been getting going at 9:15! I can't believe they're closed up, locked up and gone home already.

I guess that it's that kind of thing that tells me that revival is a long way off here. Back when, we were so hungry for God that we would stay and tarry and seek His face until He moved. Sometimes for hours. Sometimes days, sometimes weeks! Today, if God hasn't moved by 8:00, forget it. We have to get home to get ready for work tomorrow. I wonder if God even feels He's welcome and wanted anymore?

Just my thoughts.

It might be that this is the last Sunday in May, and a lot of churches have family night instead of Church on the last Sunday of each month.

[Margies3]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

It might be that this is the last Sunday in May, and a lot of churches have family night instead of Church on the last Sunday of each month.

That could be very true, Matt. I guess that the point I was making tho is that way back when, we wouldn't have had a family night instead of a church night on any Sunday, because we wanted to hear from God so badly.

Please don't think I'm judging. I really am not. In fact, I have no problem at all with family nights, or even with going with just one service every Sunday.

I'm just wondering if the reason that we saw such great moves of God years ago was because we made seeking Him our number one priority.

Of course, since I don't even go to an apostolic church anymore, I guess I should really just back out of this conversation. Just wanted to toss out my food for thought. Thanks for letting me do that.

By the way, my observation is that this phenomenon is not unique to Apostolic churches. Back in the late '60's, there was revival going on in many churches. Now most churches have cancelled Sunday evening services and even Wednesday night Bible studies. Only a handful even hold a prayer service anymore. And yet we wonder why God doesn't favor us with His presence?

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by Margies3

That could be very true, Matt. I guess that the point I was making tho is that way back when, we wouldn't have had a family night instead of a church night on any Sunday, because we wanted to hear from God so badly.

Please don't think I'm judging. I really am not. In fact, I have no problem at all with family nights, or even with going with just one service every Sunday.

I'm just wondering if the reason that we saw such great moves of God years ago was because we made seeking Him our number one priority.

Of course, since I don't even go to an apostolic church anymore, I guess I should really just back out of this conversation. Just wanted to toss out my food for thought. Thanks for letting me do that.

By the way, my observation is that this phenomenon is not unique to Apostolic churches. Back in the late '60's, there was revival going on in many churches. Now most churches have cancelled Sunday evening services and even Wednesday night Bible studies. Only a handful even hold a prayer service anymore. And yet we wonder why God doesn't favor us with His presence?

I didn't think anything bad at all Sis,. I just didn't know if you knew that a lot of Apostolic churches have gone to this.

And I agree with you that we do not seek God the way I remember us doing so back in the early to mid 70's. All Night prayer meetings were still done during those days.

Ironically, I preached tonight from the 1st chapter of John, "What Seek Ye?"

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Margies3

This is probably pretty simplistic viewing, but I saw something tonight that I just have to comment on.................

Walt and I drove past First Apostolic Church in Toledo at 9:15 this evening (Sunday evening) and it was completely dark with not a car in the parking lot. I told Walt that back in the day, church would have just been getting going at 9:15! I can't believe they're closed up, locked up and gone home already.

I guess that it's that kind of thing that tells me that revival is a long way off here. Back when, we were so hungry for God that we would stay and tarry and seek His face until He moved. Sometimes for hours. Sometimes days, sometimes weeks! Today, if God hasn't moved by 8:00, forget it. We have to get home to get ready for work tomorrow. I wonder if God even feels He's welcome and wanted anymore?

Just my thoughts.

They might be starting the evening service (if they still have one) earlier than they used to.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

Lets make sure that we stay in context when we use a scripture. The "New Thing" that God spoke of in the old testament was the New Covenant.

Sorry that you thought I was out of context. Look because God brought about the 'New Covenant' He can and does bring about new things all the time. To just assume God will ALWAYS move in the same vein as He ALWAYS has is boxing God in. When He was on earth as human form He healed in different ways. He was ALWAYS challengin the norm of that day. He is and was then ALWAYS out of the box. Yet it seems that most OP's ALWAYS try and box Him into their mentality. That is ALWAYS not good.

[SDG]

I'm having a revival ... don't know about you.