~Simon the Sorcerer & One-Steppers~

[Praxeas]

not only possible, but quite probable. But we have a number of posters that believe they have reached some zenith of human perfection and often come here in order to correct us. After dealing with the imperfect wretches that we are they usually storm out vowing never to return....then come back two weeks later lol

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

After dealing with the imperfect wretches that we are

Confession is good for the soul......You've taken the first step to recovery..........but to others you've just been cured

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Can you post the scriptures that lead you to believe yes?

Acts 3:19

Ephesians 2:8

Galatians 3: 2 -6, 24

Romans 10:9, 10

Acts 2:38-47

Acts 3:19

John 20:22, 23

John 3:16

Mark 16:16, 17

1 John 5:1-3

2 Thessalonians 2:13

I bet I can find more if I keep on looking. The Word of the Lord confirms the Word of the Lord and leaves nothing for assumption.

[SDG]

Prax don't you go to church w/ BW ... I mean Mr. Cor?

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

See the Greek.

"Verse 37 is rejected or cancelled , as spurious, by Griesbach, Grotius, Mill, Wetstein, Pierce, Tittman, Knapp, Lachmann, Tischendorf and others. It is not found in the ancient Syriac." : 1864 Emphatic Diaglott by : Benjamin F. Wilson.

The entire verse is italicized in the Amplified. "Note; many manuscripts do not contain this verse."

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Please elaborate on this, I'm not sure I'm understanding you.

If some one decides out of their emotions to at that moment to be baptized, that does not mean that they have truly repented of their sins.

My Dad used to talk about them: "They go down dry devils and come up wet devils."


So Jesus is not preaching a two step salvation in Mark 16. If one believes they will be baptized. When you take the rest of the scriptures in the Bible that talk about salvation and baptism, you will see that the Apostles connected faith and salvation-- while baptizing those who had already become believers.

Outside of faith in Jesus Christ, there is no salvation. The Holy Ghost baptism is the Promise from the Father for all those who believe.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Prax don't you go to church w/ BW ... I mean Mr. Cor?

No.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Acts 8


5) Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.


12) But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.


13) Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.



It's disturbing that Simon the Sorcerer (witch) understood salvation, yet a one-stepper can't comprehend it. Perhaps they would understand if they converted to a wicca?


The scripture reads Simon preached "Jesus" and "things concerning the kingdom of God", and then the crowds and Simon were baptized.

Water baptism is always accompanied when preaching "Jesus" and "things concerning the kingdom of God", just as it was plainly illustrated by Philip in Samaria.

kinda strange you one-steppers don't see baptism equally important as repentance. If baptism is qualified as "a thing" concerning the kingdom, and part of preaching "Jesus", you're two steps near salvation.


So much for just believing after repentance that you're saved! What a bunch of hogwash!

If you're preaching the same gospel Philip preached, Jesus name water baptism is always mandatory after the those hearing have believed.

I'm not addressing this reply to "you three steppers", because as among those who hold to the "one step" veiw there are different views of the new birth among "three steppers". And, I don't address this to the brethren of the 3-step view because, while, at times, the past discussions have become heated, these brethren, by and large, have shown at least a modicum of Christian charity. This post (above) does not, but seems to only serve to broaden the division among brethen of like precious faith.

No, I address the particularly to Brother 1Cor. I would have posted earlier but a storm knocked our power out. And, while I'm at it, its not often I take a brother to task over something he posts... but this type of net casting needs to be addressed. I apologize in advance to all for what I say here.

I address this to you, Bro 1Cor because it was you who posted what is clearly a flagrant attempt to add to the division on this forum with what is nothing more than an inflamatory remarks that serve no purpose than to sow discord among the brethren. Your suggestion that 'one steppers" might understand better if they converted to the Wicca religion was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to associate "one steppers" with paganism. That is highly offensive and completely unchristian. Perhaps this is your failing attempt to garner support from others who may share your views, but I"m afraid and certainly hope you have since found yourself sitting out on a limb all alone. I doubt seriously you'll find much support for a couple of reasons:

1. Yours was no attempt to rationally discuss an issue- yours is nothing more but an inflamatory and inciteful post designed to divide. Your reference to Wicca proves that, along with remarks like:

you one-steppers don't see baptism equally important as repentance.

What a bunch of hogwash!

Your motives to sow the seeds of discord and to start a smear campaign is clear.

2. A few weeks ago you were asked to verify some claims regarding your educational achievements. You won't or you can't. Or you won't because you can't. Because you refused to verify your claims, your credibility went out the window. With this thread, any credibilty you hope to salvage lies in the dirt.

I'll not debate the issue. I have neither the time or inclination to go through this whole discussion book chapter and verse, but I will say this: Your blanket statements are anything but honest. I'll not presume to speak for others, but never, not once have I ever denied the importance and need for, or the necessity of water baptism or of recieving the Holy Ghost. I may have used the "saved" in the sense that, in my view, a person is "saved" when their sins are forgiven at repentance. It is my understanding from the Scriptures that sins are forgiven at repentance. It is then and there that the blood cleanses us from our sin. This view is shown clearly in John 3:16, in the verses you posted, and throughout the NT. The Bible (From the OT Tabernacle to the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our Lord) is full of evidence that we are given everlasting life the moment we believe unto repentance the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This in no way invalidates the need for water baptism or its important role in the spiritual development of a new believer in Christ. And, I might add, I do not recall one person in the various discussions on this issue ever refute the need for baptism in Jesus' Name. We all agree that Acts 2:38 makes it clear that once a person believes the Gospel, they are to be baptized in Jesus' Name. The difference, in my veiw, is that salvation isn't earn at baptism, but was granted at repentance. Baptism is a testament of what took place at repentance when the Blood of Christ wasshed away our sins. I do not think of the Holy Ghost as a necessity in the sense that "You must have it or you're gonna split hell wide open", but rather, as Peter said, a free gift of God made avilable to all who have repented of their sins.This Holy Ghost isn't something to be force fed to God's people, but is God's Gift to those who obey the call of Christ to "Come unto ME and I will give thee rest..." .

No one, to my knowledge, on this forum has ever refuted the importance of water baptism in the Christian life and to suggest otherwise in not being as honest as one should be.

Brother. I'm not trying to change your views. I'm writing this with the hope that we can share in divine fellowship inspite of our differing veiws. And, I write with the hoipe that you will honestly consider your true purpose in starting this thread and also consider how totally offensive your remark in associating "onestepper' with the godless religion of Wicca.

And, just so you will know, this is being written with love and prayer from a brother who isn't a minister and who has never graduated (or claimed to) from anything in his life.

[SDG]

Bravo!!!

No one, to my knowledge, on this forum has ever refuted the importance of water baptism in the Christian life and to suggest otherwise in not being as honest as one should be.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I'm not addressing this reply to "you three steppers", because as among those who hold to the "one step" veiw there are different views of the new birth among "three steppers". And, I don't address this to the brethren of the 3-step view because, while, at times, the past discussions have become heated, these brethren, by and large, have shown at least a modicum of Christian charity. This post (above) does not, but seems to only serve to broaden the division among brethen of like precious faith.

No, I address the particularly to Brother 1Cor. I would have posted earlier but a storm knocked our power out. And, while I'm at it, its not often I take a brother to task over something he posts... but this type of net casting needs to be addressed. I apologize in advance to all for what I say here.

I address this to you, Bro 1Cor because it was you who posted what is clearly a flagrant attempt to add to the division on this forum with what is nothing more than an inflamatory remarks that serve no purpose than to sow discord among the brethren. Your suggestion that 'one steppers" might understand better if they converted to the Wicca religion was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to associate "one steppers" with paganism. That is highly offensive and completely unchristian. Perhaps this is your failing attempt to garner support from others who may share your views, but I"m afraid and certainly hope you have since found yourself sitting out on a limb all alone. I doubt seriously you'll find much support for a couple of reasons:

1. Yours was no attempt to rationally discuss an issue- yours is nothing more but an inflamatory and inciteful post designed to divide. Your reference to Wicca proves that, along with remarks like:





Your motives to sow the seeds of discord and to start a smear campaign is clear.

2. A few weeks ago you were asked to verify some claims regarding your educational achievements. You won't or you can't. Or you won't because you can't. Because you refused to verify your claims, your credibility went out the window. With this thread, any credibilty you hope to salvage lies in the dirt.

I'll not debate the issue. I have neither the time or inclination to go through this whole discussion book chapter and verse, but I will say this: Your blanket statements are anything but honest. I'll not presume to speak for others, but never, not once have I ever denied the importance and need for, or the necessity of water baptism or of recieving the Holy Ghost. I may have used the "saved" in the sense that, in my view, a person is "saved" when their sins are forgiven at repentance. It is my understanding from the Scriptures that sins are forgiven at repentance. It is then and there that the blood cleanses us from our sin. This view is shown clearly in John 3:16, in the verses you posted, and throughout the NT. The Bible (From the OT Tabernacle to the Death, Burial and Resurrection of our Lord) is full of evidence that we are given everlasting life the moment we believe unto repentance the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This in no way invalidates the need for water baptism or its important role in the spiritual development of a new believer in Christ. And, I might add, I do not recall one person in the various discussions on this issue ever refute the need for baptism in Jesus' Name. We all agree that Acts 2:38 makes it clear that once a person believes the Gospel, they are to be baptized in Jesus' Name. The difference, in my veiw, is that salvation isn't earn at baptism, but was granted at repentance. Baptism is a testament of what took place at repentance when the Blood of Christ wasshed away our sins. I do not think of the Holy Ghost as a necessity in the sense that "You must have it or you're gonna split hell wide open", but rather, as Peter said, a free gift of God made avilable to all who have repented of their sins.This Holy Ghost isn't something to be force fed to God's people, but is God's Gift to those who obey the call of Christ to "Come unto ME and I will give thee rest..." .

No one, to my knowledge, on this forum has ever refuted the importance of water baptism in the Christian life and to suggest otherwise in not being as honest as one should be.

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Brother. I'm not trying to change your views. I'm writing this with the hope that we can share in divine fellowship inspite of our differing veiws. And, I write with the hoipe that you will honestly consider your true purpose in starting this thread and also consider how totally offensive your remark in associating "onestepper' with the godless religion of Wicca.

And, just so you will know, this is being written with love and prayer from a brother who isn't a minister and who has never graduated (or claimed to) from anything in his life.

Semantics?

Some do not see that being Baptized is essential to your salvation.

That is a fact.