Its just not right

[POWERUP]

I'm whupped. Gotta go to bed.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

NO ONE can even understand "oneness" the way I hear some spiritual egg-heads talk about it -and then they make the statement that no one can be saved unless they understand it in the exact same way either.

And I keep asking this, but WHO believes in three unique "Gods" out there? I don't know of any trinitarians who do.

Okay you do not know of any but let me share with you something and you tell me how they possibly believe he is only one when they word it the way they do.

this is taken from the following website

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=693

THREE GODS OR ONE?

We teach there is one God manifest in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Jesus Only people teach that Christ is the Father, He is the Son and He is the Holy Ghost. Hence the name, Jesus Only. I believe we can provide proper evidence from the Word of God that this is not the case and that the teaching advanced by these people is erroneous and does not accord proper due and honor to the Godhead.

The Scripture does state there is one God. But the word "one" relates to unity as well as number. I John 5:7 clearly means one in unity, as does St. John 17:11-21. And yet there are three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The three are spoken of as one in number and yet treated individually in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Ghost (I Corinthians 8:6; Ehpesians 4:3-6). Thus there are three separate persons in divine individuality and divine plurality. The Father is called God (I Corinthians 8:6), the Son is called God (Isaiah 9:6-7; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:1-2) and the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3- 4). Individually, each is called God; collectively, they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word "God" can be used either in the singular or in the plural, like sheep. Everything that could pertain to God collectively could also apply equally to each member of the Godhead as individuals. However, there are some particulars which relate to each individual person of the deity as to position, office, and work that could not be attributed to either of the other members of the Godhead. For instance, the Father is the head of Christ (I Corinthians 11:3). The Son is the only begotten of the Father (II John 1:3). The Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son (John 14:16; Acts 2:3-4).

With words like that, and this is how most all trinitarians discribe the ONE GOD they serve, how can we possibly understand that they believe in ONE GOD? They even state that the Godhead is a mystery. The Bible does not ever call the Godhead a mystery. It says great is the mystery of Godliness and it also says that the fullness of the GODHEAD dwelled in him (Jesus) bodily.
You can say all day that they do not believe in three but their words betray them. If they believed in one God they would believe that Peter was teaching the truth at Penetcost and would actually baptize the way they were instructed, in Jesus name. They obviously believe that Jesus is just one of three that exist and agree eternally as one. That is still three.

[tv1a]

Ask most trinitarians what the name of God is and they will tell you Jesus. The reason they don't baptize in Jesus name is their theory is that red letter words trump black letter words. I don't agree with that assessment, but many do. I've baptized people in Jesus name who went under trinitarians and came up trinitarians.... Out of obedience to scripture, not revelation of a godhead.

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

Okay you do not know of any but let me share with you something and you tell me how they possibly believe he is only one when they word it the way they do.

this is taken from the following website

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=693

THREE GODS OR ONE?

We teach there is one God manifest in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Jesus Only people teach that Christ is the Father, He is the Son and He is the Holy Ghost. Hence the name, Jesus Only. I believe we can provide proper evidence from the Word of God that this is not the case and that the teaching advanced by these people is erroneous and does not accord proper due and honor to the Godhead.

The Scripture does state there is one God. But the word "one" relates to unity as well as number. I John 5:7 clearly means one in unity, as does St. John 17:11-21. And yet there are three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The three are spoken of as one in number and yet treated individually in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Ghost (I Corinthians 8:6; Ehpesians 4:3-6). Thus there are three separate persons in divine individuality and divine plurality. The Father is called God (I Corinthians 8:6), the Son is called God (Isaiah 9:6-7; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:1-2) and the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3- 4). Individually, each is called God; collectively, they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word "God" can be used either in the singular or in the plural, like sheep. Everything that could pertain to God collectively could also apply equally to each member of the Godhead as individuals. However, there are some particulars which relate to each individual person of the deity as to position, office, and work that could not be attributed to either of the other members of the Godhead. For instance, the Father is the head of Christ (I Corinthians 11:3). The Son is the only begotten of the Father (II John 1:3). The Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son (John 14:16; Acts 2:3-4).

With words like that, and this is how most all trinitarians discribe the ONE GOD they serve, how can we possibly understand that they believe in ONE GOD? They even state that the Godhead is a mystery. The Bible does not ever call the Godhead a mystery. It says great is the mystery of Godliness and it also says that the fullness of the GODHEAD dwelled in him (Jesus) bodily.
You can say all day that they do not believe in three but their words betray them. If they believed in one God they would believe that Peter was teaching the truth at Penetcost and would actually baptize the way they were instructed, in Jesus name. They obviously believe that Jesus is just one of three that exist and agree eternally as one. That is still three.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

Okay you do not know of any but let me share with you something and you tell me how they possibly believe he is only one when they word it the way they do.

this is taken from the following website

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=693

THREE GODS OR ONE?

We teach there is one God manifest in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Jesus Only people teach that Christ is the Father, He is the Son and He is the Holy Ghost. Hence the name, Jesus Only. I believe we can provide proper evidence from the Word of God that this is not the case and that the teaching advanced by these people is erroneous and does not accord proper due and honor to the Godhead.

The Scripture does state there is one God. But the word "one" relates to unity as well as number. I John 5:7 clearly means one in unity, as does St. John 17:11-21. And yet there are three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The three are spoken of as one in number and yet treated individually in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Ghost (I Corinthians 8:6; Ehpesians 4:3-6). Thus there are three separate persons in divine individuality and divine plurality. The Father is called God (I Corinthians 8:6), the Son is called God (Isaiah 9:6-7; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:1-2) and the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3- 4). Individually, each is called God; collectively, they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word "God" can be used either in the singular or in the plural, like sheep. Everything that could pertain to God collectively could also apply equally to each member of the Godhead as individuals. However, there are some particulars which relate to each individual person of the deity as to position, office, and work that could not be attributed to either of the other members of the Godhead. For instance, the Father is the head of Christ (I Corinthians 11:3). The Son is the only begotten of the Father (II John 1:3). The Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son (John 14:16; Acts 2:3-4).

With words like that, and this is how most all trinitarians discribe the ONE GOD they serve, how can we possibly understand that they believe in ONE GOD? They even state that the Godhead is a mystery. The Bible does not ever call the Godhead a mystery. It says great is the mystery of Godliness and it also says that the fullness of the GODHEAD dwelled in him (Jesus) bodily.
You can say all day that they do not believe in three but their words betray them. If they believed in one God they would believe that Peter was teaching the truth at Penetcost and would actually baptize the way they were instructed, in Jesus name. They obviously believe that Jesus is just one of three that exist and agree eternally as one. That is still three.

This is the basic way Trins I have discussed with believe. They do TRY hard to say they dont believe in 3 Gods. Yet statements of faith like this one reveals they DO reject the fact that there is only ONE YHWH in the Universe.

Thats why we contend with them for the faith once delivered to the Saints.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

Okay you do not know of any but let me share with you something and you tell me how they possibly believe he is only one when they word it the way they do.

this is taken from the following website

http://www.believersweb.org/view.cfm?ID=693

THREE GODS OR ONE?

We teach there is one God manifest in three persons: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. The Jesus Only people teach that Christ is the Father, He is the Son and He is the Holy Ghost. Hence the name, Jesus Only. I believe we can provide proper evidence from the Word of God that this is not the case and that the teaching advanced by these people is erroneous and does not accord proper due and honor to the Godhead.

The Scripture does state there is one God. But the word "one" relates to unity as well as number. I John 5:7 clearly means one in unity, as does St. John 17:11-21. And yet there are three distinct persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. The three are spoken of as one in number and yet treated individually in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Ghost (I Corinthians 8:6; Ehpesians 4:3-6). Thus there are three separate persons in divine individuality and divine plurality. The Father is called God (I Corinthians 8:6), the Son is called God (Isaiah 9:6-7; Hebrews 1:8; John 1:1-2) and the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3- 4). Individually, each is called God; collectively, they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word "God" can be used either in the singular or in the plural, like sheep. Everything that could pertain to God collectively could also apply equally to each member of the Godhead as individuals. However, there are some particulars which relate to each individual person of the deity as to position, office, and work that could not be attributed to either of the other members of the Godhead. For instance, the Father is the head of Christ (I Corinthians 11:3). The Son is the only begotten of the Father (II John 1:3). The Holy Ghost proceeds from both the Father and the Son (John 14:16; Acts 2:3-4).

With words like that, and this is how most all trinitarians discribe the ONE GOD they serve, how can we possibly understand that they believe in ONE GOD? They even state that the Godhead is a mystery. The Bible does not ever call the Godhead a mystery. It says great is the mystery of Godliness and it also says that the fullness of the GODHEAD dwelled in him (Jesus) bodily.
You can say all day that they do not believe in three but their words betray them. If they believed in one God they would believe that Peter was teaching the truth at Penetcost and would actually baptize the way they were instructed, in Jesus name. They obviously believe that Jesus is just one of three that exist and agree eternally as one. That is still three.

Obviously, the author (Jimbo himself) is trying to make a case for three DISTINCT personalities in the godhead, yet I know of no one who believes that. For one thing, it is not natural.
Second, this is no different that oneness conversations and articles I have been witness to that go into such deep minutia that it makes it impossible for nearly anyone to believe in "one God" the same way they do.
And third..... Is the mere "belief" in three Gods as three distinct personalities a one way ticket to hell if you do as Jesus says and believe on Him?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by POWERUP

Before anybody thinks this is a UPC bashing thread. Its not. My whole family is UPC preachers, pastors, evangelist, etc..

Here is my deal. My dad told me the other night, he went to a UPC Campmeeting. And the evangelist started out preaching a great message, then all of a sudden got on the one-God. Thats fine. But, then he starts making fun of others who believe in the trinity. Making jokes, like God said come here Jesus, and Jesus said, yes father. But said it all in a very cocky way. Making fun way.

Tacky, Tacky, Tacky, and more Tacky.

Come on. Its just not right!!!!

And trust me. We know we don't have any room to be making fun.

Lets use a little wisdom. Campmeeting or Not.

I guess he ran out of good material or ran low on anointing.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Obviously, the author (Jimbo himself) is trying to make a case for three DISTINCT personalities in the godhead, yet I know of no one who believes that. For one thing, it is not natural.
Second, this is no different that oneness conversations and articles I have been witness to that go into such deep minutia that it makes it impossible for nearly anyone to believe in "one God" the same way they do.
And third..... Is the mere "belief" in three Gods as three distinct personalities a one way ticket to hell if you do as Jesus says and believe on Him?

Distinct personalities???? that is not what his writings say. This is the way EVERYONE of them I have talked to discribed it. Your trinitarian friends must not be very trinitarian if they do not want to discribe them as THREE CO-EQUAL, CO-ETERNAL beings that AGREE AS ONE.
I have not said it is going to send them to hell. I believe that they confess Jesus Christ is the Messiah and that they are doing their best to survive God. I honestly have had a hard time, not to mention a long time, to come to this decision. I think they serve the same God but they are confused on who He is and how He works. Will it keep them out of heaven? That I do not know. It doesn't stop them from having a relationship with Him. I pray that they come to a complete understanding of God. Especially if it is a problem for their salvation. That though is a thing for God to decide.
My Issue is with your comment that they do not REALLY believe in three when all their writings state it as such. When you talk to them they seperate Him out into three distinct SEPERATE beings that co-exists as ONE. That is not ONE. I have three distinct parts to me but I am still one. I have Body, Soul, and Spirit but they are not seperate. Yes I exist as one but even at that they do not always agree and I have to die daily to keep one or the other under subjection to the will of God in my life.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I guess he ran out of good material or ran low on anointing.

???? or did he have any?

[U376977]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Ask most trinitarians what the name of God is and they will tell you Jesus. The reason they don't baptize in Jesus name is their theory is that red letter words trump black letter words. I don't agree with that assessment, but many do. I've baptized people in Jesus name who went under trinitarians and came up trinitarians.... Out of obedience to scripture, not revelation of a godhead.

Then you should not have baptized them in the name of the Lord. Read the baptism accounts in Acts again. In every instance it was after one came to believe that Jesus was the Christ. Now put that in historical context---to believe that Jesus was the Christ at that time meant to believe that He was the Messiah, God come in the flesh. In the NT, the standard for baptism was the belief that Jesus was God in flesh. I really do not see how a Trinitarian can be baptized in the name....I would rather they stick to the titles until they come to see the whole purpose of batism.

Make sense?

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by U376977

Then you should not have baptized them in the name of the Lord. Read the baptism accounts in Acts again. In every instance it was after one came to believe that Jesus was the Christ. Now put that in historical context---to believe that Jesus was the Christ at that time meant to believe that He was the Messiah, God come in the flesh. In the NT, the standard for baptism was the belief that Jesus was God in flesh. I really do not see how a Trinitarian can be baptized in the name....I would rather they stick to the titles until they come to see the whole purpose of batism.

Make sense?

actually it does. I have always been told that taking the name of the Lord in vain was being baptized in His name without full knowledge of who He is or the purpose of the baptism. So yes it does make sense to me.