Often times, what we read on AFF is preacher failure.
The preacher failed to preach the message in a way that some of you could get it in your HEARTS.
I hate that.
And then sometimes, what I read is out and out rebellion of backsliders and reprobates.
I hate that too.
JMHO
I know people that left the UPC and standards, but started first with standards and then were basically asked to choose. But they left standards because they had studied it out and found in their view it was NOT as solid a doctrine as some make it to be. They wanted to believe it. They wanted to stay with the UPC too, but they could not deny their conscious in that they simply did NOT believe them like many in the UPC did. They were not rebellious, reprobate or backslidden. They believed very much in Acts 2:38 and one God and to this day still do! They are dead set against sin. Aside from your idea of standards they are very conservative people AND very VERY active in the kingdom of God. They were taught and preached to by a very VERY excellent Pastor too.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I am sincerely sorry that was your experience and from that paradigm I understand your response.
In my case however the majority of memories about Old Tyme Pentecost are quite different.
I think some of the "you are going to hell" attitudes here are the only experience they knew. The "just obey me and don't expect me to make sense" attitude too has many who refuse to deny their God given intellect wanting to get out. It does not help that the very people who believe this the most and believe it is a heaven or hell issue run away when others question or refute those doctrines then stand afar off and point fingers or come back for hit and run style postings about how this forum is this or that
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I read yoru posts but that is nothing close to what you said. Hinted maybe yes but nothing clear.
I understand and agree in part. Works in themselves don't save but our response to God does which is works. Thus works reflect our response to the leading of the Spirit. Romans 8 Also everyone at some point draws lines on works that are essential to be saved unless you are OSAS in belief. Even then they have a start line that includes the finish. Does what she wears save her? Does me not committing fornication save me? Directly no. Indirectly yes, as sin leads to death. Does obediance save? Yes! So the matter of what context one puts to obediance matters. To him that believes it is sin it is sin. Should one go around bringing people down and cast everyone into hell? No! At the same time it doesn't mean it is not a heaven or hell issue either. All things done in love is what matters and seeking God for his leading into all truth. In this it sounds like you have taught her well.
I was raised in a 'don't do this, don't do that' environment and never allowed to question anything. If my pastor said it, it was gospel, and you could take it to the bank.
I never wanted my kids raised that way. Both of them read the Bible and study it. My daughter has read the Bible through more than once, and is now starting on a different version in an attempt to learn more. She also has confiscated my library of concordances, dictionaries, and other Biblical studies and has them in HER bookshelf! LOL!
I like that she loves to learn. I hope she is ever learning.
But I don't want her to develop an attitude that those who don't agree with her theology are wrong or have left God.
She's a good kid. I'm proud of her and my son as well. I don't think I've done a shabby job of raising them in light of the circumstances that have befallen them in the course of their short lives.
And thanks for your sentiments. It's appreciated.
__________________
I've gone and done it now! I'm on Facebook!!!
I was reading the posts this morning and an old chorus came back to me they sung 40-50 years ago I will share it with you.
Goodbye-farewell I told this world goodbye,
I walked across that separating line,
And told this old world goodbye.
And another
I am Marked-marked-marked
I am marked whereever I go
I am marked-marked-marked
what I have everybody seems to know
I am sealed-sealed-sealed
I am sealed by his Spirit divine
Glory to God Halleluia Amen
I am His and I know He is mine.
I am Happy with my experience-my home in Pentecost. I have family who pioneered the Charismatic movement they are not happy. I am happy.
I walked into a corner market once and this young man came to me and said "you are a Christian aren't you?".. I said "yes how can you tell"...his reply was he can see the Spirit in me...not the fact that I shaved my face or had hair above my collar.
I saw some young men once at a store wearing suits and thought they were from the nearby Apostolic Assemblies....I listened to them talking and "witnessing" to someone and realized they were JWs.
I saw a woman once, she used to go to the grocery store regularly with her daughter. She would come in and I wanted to ask if she was Apostolic. She had long uncut hair, no makeup, no jewelry and always wore long dresses and long sleeves as well as her daughter. Day after day, month after month. I finally asked her and she got very upset. Apparently she gets asked that a lot. They were NOT Apostolic.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I was raised in a 'don't do this, don't do that' environment and never allowed to question anything. If my pastor said it, it was gospel, and you could take it to the bank.
I never wanted my kids raised that way. Both of them read the Bible and study it. My daughter has read the Bible through more than once, and is now starting on a different version in an attempt to learn more. She also has confiscated my library of concordances, dictionaries, and other Biblical studies and has them in HER bookshelf! LOL!
I like that she loves to learn. I hope she is ever learning.
But I don't want her to develop an attitude that those who don't agree with her theology are wrong or have left God.
She's a good kid. I'm proud of her and my son as well. I don't think I've done a shabby job of raising them in light of the circumstances that have befallen them in the course of their short lives.
And thanks for your sentiments. It's appreciated.
Maybe the Lord is speaking to you through your daughter? This is not TIC. She could be a druggie or immoral. God is sending you a witness in your home follow it. This is NOT a jab but some sincere advice.
I wonder if the Early Church and The Apostles themselves would pass the standards. FWIW I had fairly long hair(I'm a musician and private guitar teacher) and a goatee when I was baptized in Jesus name and tarried and filled with the Holy Ghost.
I still think ultimately Jesus is much more interested in where our hearts are.
Jesus is! Remember folks Jesus said it's not what goes in that defiles a man but what comes out
Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things pass out from inside and defile the man.
And for all their outward appearences we have yet to perfected ourselves folks. Divorce is too high in our ranks. Adultery, Fornication, lying, defrauding, gossiping, pride...ego....
The problem I believe are not outward "standards" but the emphasis on THEM being salvational (saving us) and not focusing on real sins and the fruit of the Spirit
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Im not surprised. Im just glad OP did not put a smiley and add a picture of someone writhing in pain in a fiery lake of fire and make some sort of careless comment.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I walked into a corner market once and this young man came to me and said "you are a Christian aren't you?".. I said "yes how can you tell"...his reply was he can see the Spirit in me...not the fact that I shaved my face or had hair above my collar.
I saw some young men once at a store wearing suits and thought they were from the nearby Apostolic Assemblies....I listened to them talking and "witnessing" to someone and realized they were JWs.
I saw a woman once, she used to go to the grocery store regularly with her daughter. She would come in and I wanted to ask if she was Apostolic. She had long uncut hair, no makeup, no jewelry and always wore long dresses and long sleeves as well as her daughter. Day after day, month after month. I finally asked her and she got very upset. Apparently she gets asked that a lot. They were NOT Apostolic.
Yes believe it or not some Baptists and other groups have the same type of dress codes as OP's. Actually it might amaze you how many have such standards. We went to the creation museum near Cincinnati Ohio. You would not believe how many from all walks of life where very much if not more conservative in these areas. Truly amazing!
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