Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Murphy
Thanks, this helps me a great deal too... I've been very frustrated that some of my questions and conversations were not taken seriously in the past, this helps me to understand why.
Unfortunately, for those of us who question some of the more basic things, that means both sides are wasting their time discussing issues where one side is not willing to think outside of a certain "safe" area... (because to them the matter is settled without any thought even required - kinda like not questioning a default setting when the default setting works just fine for that person) and means that I have been correct in backing off my postings over the past couple of years on these forums.
There are many things that I have questioned my entire life, and felt that no one was willing to try to answer them... now I find that it is not that they are not willing to answer them, it is more that they do not accept the question as valid in the first place... so there is no point in trying to answer them.
I believe this new understanding is going to help me to finally let go of some things, so thank you for that. It doesn't change the fact that I have questions, just that I'm not looking in the right place for answers.... and it is probably best that I move on. This isn't a goodbye post... more like an "I concede that the answers I am looking for will not be found here" post... so will stop asking those questions here.
At some point I passed the "I'm one of you but am just trying to understand" point, and have moved more towards the "He's not one of us or else he would not be asking these questions in the first place" point.
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Brad,
Do you have any foundation upon which you base your conclusions? Is it human reasoning or logic? Many people base their beliefs upon logic, reasoning, or science, perhaps. Philosophy, maybe.
No matter what you choose to base your conclusions about all matters on--at some point, you will find there are holes or errors in either your judgment or that of any man-formed foundation. For me, I have never found any holes or errors in God or His Word, so I base myself and my values upon a firm, true foundation.
It isn't that your question isn't valid. It's just that I can't answer it to
your satisfaction, if our reasoning is different, and our conclusions are drawn from different sources. Therefore, while the conversation in and of itself may be enjoyable, entertaining or provocative, the end result will still have to be an agreement to disagree.
My post, above, was very blunt, but it wasn't intended to be offensive--just honest. I don't retreat from conversations to that which is "safe." It's not that I'm frightened of examining my foundation. It's that I've
already examined it and determined that it's strong and sure, and I don't wish to step off of that which is sound, into
error. I'm willing to acknowledge the influences of culture and society on certain issues, such as our language, or modesty. But ultimately, if there is a gray area, I will turn to God's Word to give me the absolute. Once I find the absolute, I draw a final, non-negotiable conclusion.
The conversations are fruitless
at some point because my side of it will end with scripture. And every rebuttal will point me back to scripture to find the answer. It's not the the conversation isn't "worth it", it's just that I do come to this forum for edification (mostly), and sometimes for entertainment, and pursuing questions from a non christian worldview is neither uplifting for me, or even entertaining. (Most of the time.) Kind of like the thread Joelel has up right now...his questions have already been answered by numerous apologists over the years, and are not hard to find--but honestly, it only interests me for a little bit to go look up the answers and provide them, and then I just get tired of it. They are so easily found, and there are no real contradictions there.
I don't believe that I said anywhere that you or Michlow shouldn't post here, nor do I think that. I enjoy reading both of your posts. It's just that I've already decided the course of my life. I'm not IN questioning mode. I've been there and moved beyond it. And there are certain things I do not allow myself to question, such as the existence of God or the validity of his spoken Word. Not because I am fearful of finding that He doesn't exist, or that His Word isn't true, because I have possessed those beliefs for as long as I can remember, and have never found proofs against them. No, it's more because I think He has cautioned us, with good reason, against even pursuing those lines of thought in the "academic" sense.
I hate to spring this on you again, but I memorized these verses when I was very small:
"Thy Word have I hid in my heart, that I might not sin against you." (His Word keeps me from making bad choices, both intellectual and lifestyle.)
"Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." (If I can't see the way, His Word will open my eyes.)
"The fool has said in his heart, 'There is no God.'" (I do not want to pursue that thought, because I do not want God to call me a foolish person.)
"Beware lest any man spoil you, through philosophy and vain deceit; after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." (Let God be true, and every man a liar.)
And I fear for those who are on any path to "self-discovery." We should be about discovering God--not ourselves.
"A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself."
"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"
I can't imagine, nor do I even wish to pursue, a life without God's Word to guide me. I don't believe that questioning God's existence makes you (or anyone else) of superior intelligence or bravado. In fact, I believe it is careless, and self-destructive.
God will not be undone by any questioning of His existence. However, the person who questions must be careful that they are not undone by their own musings.
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