Mark, the whole point of this thread was not whether all black clergymen are above reproach, it was about why we do not see more diversity amongst the leadership specifically in the UPC. I would not attempt to defend or vouch for the fallen Black pastors in other organizations any more than I would the fallen White pastors in other organizations. The stories of Paulk and others are so perverted and convoluted that the average sinner lives above that.
For someone like me who was raised around and able to observe many of the respected Black leaders in our particular org, it is curious to me that a proclivity for immorality would be advanced as a cause for the lack of representation and visibility at some level. Once again, things are better now than they have ever been in my opinion, but I was struck by that statement and looking for more clarity as it relates to this org...the only one I've ever been a part of.
Okay, understood. I thought the topic had veered off but I hadn't followed this thread step by step either.
As for my comments, I tend to think it's more prevelant in certain denominations more than anything. as I said, I haven't seen it to the level of other groups I mentioned in ANY of the Apostolic groups.
St Mark if you dont mind, please tell us what this has to do with the issue at hand here, namely the relative lack of representation of men of color in the upper echelons of the UPCI.
I agree. I'm still flabergasted that anyone would float that as a possible reason... flabbergasted also that anyone would try to give [anecdotal] support such an outrageous contention, as if it actually contains any merit.
Okay, understood. I thought the topic had veered off but I hadn't followed this thread step by step either.
As for my comments, I tend to think it's more prevelant in certain denominations more than anything. as I said, I haven't seen it to the level of other groups I mentioned in ANY of the Apostolic groups.
carry on
No, I recognize your point, I'm just saying that I would not point to what many White Catholic priests do as an indication of how a White UPC leader would behave at Headquarters. There is a disconnect there to me, and to advance that argument would be grasping at straws in my opinion. I know that that was not what you were trying to do, I'm just wanting to keep it all in perspective.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Is there a higher rate of immorality among preachers than there is among truck drivers, salesmen, waiters, actors, managers, welders, assemblers, etc.?
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
No, I recognize your point, I'm just saying that I would not point to what many White Catholic priests do as an indication of how a White UPC leader would behave at Headquarters. There is a disconnect there to me, and to advance that argument would be grasping at straws in my opinion. I know that that was not what you were trying to do, I'm just wanting to keep it all in perspective.
I think it relates to the mentality of Leaders being "the untouchables" in ANY group, creed, race, denomination.etc
My Father was an alter boy and could tell you some stories about those preist. but he grew up in an era that if you even eluded that a leader was wrong it was equal to blaspheming to holy ghost.
Is there a higher rate of immorality among preachers than there is among truck drivers, salesmen, waiters, actors, managers, welders, assemblers, etc.?
Boy, I sure hope not though now I'm not so sure. By "preacher" do you mean everybody everywhere who preaches anything?
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
Boy, I sure hope not though now I'm not so sure. By "preacher" do you mean everybody everywhere who preaches anything?
I have heard or read somewhere that preachers, salesmen and politicians often have higher testosterone levels than men in other professions such as carpenter, bus driver, janitors, etc.
__________________
Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
I have heard or read somewhere that preachers, salesmen and politicians often have higher testosterone levels than men in other professions such as carpenter, bus driver, janitors, etc.
I had not heard that. Maybe that's what's wrong with all these professional atheletes
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I have heard or read somewhere that preachers, salesmen and politicians often have higher testosterone levels than men in other professions such as carpenter, bus driver, janitors, etc.
Sam... totally unrelated to anything here... has anyone told you you look a lot like Lee Stoneking in that picture?
Just wondering, thats all...
Carry on.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
We had a guest evangelist Sunday Night who stated something that stuck with me. He said that God can heal our bodies easily. It's our rotten attitudes that he has diffulcuty ridding out of us and only if we are willing. The children of Israel had to wonder in the wilderness for 40 years because they had an attitude problem.
I relate this to the church of today. There is a human component here that driven so deep in our DNA that it has taken us several generations just to get this far. isn't that amazing? I can't believe it's 2008 and were still going around in circles about all of this.
We can quote all the bible all we want to but a much of this comes down to 3 things: lanuage, culture and taste. I'm not making excues for anything. It's just a human thing that is very hard to root out. Much of it has been instilled for generations. It's deeply institutionalized.
The one thing that can make a difference is a move of God with a level of anointing on par with the day of Pentecost.
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