Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

He saw incense in HEAVEN. So why would an earthly mirror be in Heaven? The reality in heaven is prayer. Not incense. Since John saw incense in heaven, He saw the a symbol of what is actually in Heaven, and not what is actually there, itself. Incense does not exist in Heaven. The reality is prayer alone.

John saw a Heavenly worship service and he described elements of it in vivid symbolism. There were breaks in this Heavenly worship service wherein symbolic visions of what was to soon come to pass were unfolded before John. I don't believe that John is describing a "non-event". It was a very REAL event taking place before him.

Heaven is real, but John did not see movies of what actually is in Heaven. He saw only symbols of it. The realities were translated into symbols.

You're right....John didn't see movies. He saw an actual reality taking place before him...events that are even taking place as we speak.

Revelation 4:7-9
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

The worship is taking place as we speak...the incense is burning as we speak...the angels cry, "Holy!", as we speak. Also, the prayers of the saints are offered before the throne of Heaven, as we speak.

Heaven is REAL.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

He did not directly see Jesus, but saw a SYMBOL OF JESUS. Just like seeing One on the throne, when no man has ever seen God, which was reported by John, himself, in 1 John 4.

You actually believe Jesus was physically a lamb?

John saw Jesus and described him in vivid symbolism.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

John saw Jesus and described him in vivid symbolism.

He described a LAMB with seven eyes and horns, and that was what he saw in a vision. That is not what Jesus actually looked like at that time in heaven. John actually saw a lamb. He did not see a man with speak poetic words of purposeful symbolism concocted by John. He saw a lamb.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

John saw a Heavenly worship service and he described elements of it in vivid symbolism. There were breaks in this Heavenly worship service wherein symbolic visions of what was to soon come to pass were unfolded before John. I don't believe that John is describing a "non-event". It was a very REAL event taking place before him.



You're right....John didn't see movies. He saw an actual reality taking place before him...events that are even taking place as we speak.

Revelation 4:7-9
7And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

The worship is taking place as we speak...the incense is burning as we speak...the angels cry, "Holy!", as we speak. Also, the prayers of the saints are offered before the throne of Heaven, as we speak.

Heaven is REAL.

Please do not put words in my mouth as though I am saying Heaven is not real. John did not see what actually occurred in Heaven. He saw symbols of what ACTUALLY OCCURRED. Heaven is real but the realities are not incense and a seven-eyed lamb. The actualities are prayers and Jesus Christ.

There is worship in Heaven as we speak, yes. But it is not actually involving incense, but the incense represents the actual prayers rising from saints to God in heaven.

Heaven is real. But what John saw was not really Heaven. Heaven is not a la-la land of symbols. Real events occur there as we speak. John saw symbols of what is actually in Heaven. Like I said, and you missed it, John saw one on the throne and John also said no one has ever seen God at any time. He SAW SYMBOL of God, because God is omnipresent and cannot be actually seen.

[Antipas]

John used symbolism as lead by the Holy Ghost.

[Hoovie]

This thread is proving quite interesting now! FURTHERMORE I just got a whiff of something... incense perhaps?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

John used symbolism as lead by the Holy Ghost.

He saw what he said he saw. A lamb. He did not say He saw a human-formed Jesus and thought to relate it to us by referring to Him as a lamb with seven eyes and horns in poetic inspiration. HE SAW A LAMB WITH 7 EYES AND HORNS, because he was seeing visions.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

This thread is proving quite interesting now! FURTHERMORE I just got a whiff of something... incense perhaps?

And we all know you were speaking figuratively, and did not physically smell incense, right? lol

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Please do not put words in my mouth as though I am saying Heaven is not real. John did not see what actually occurred in Heaven. He saw symbols of what ACTUALLY OCCURRED. Heaven is real but the realities are not incense and a seven-eyed lamb. The actualities are prayers and Jesus Christ.

There is worship in Heaven as we speak, yes. But it is not actually involving incense, but the incense represents the actual prayers rising from saints to God in heaven.

Heaven is real. But what John saw was not really Heaven. Heaven is not a la-la land of symbols. Real events occur there as we speak. John saw symbols of what is actually in Heaven. Like I said, and you missed it, John saw one on the throne and John also said no one has ever seen God at any time. He SAW SYMBOL of God, because God is omnipresent and cannot be actually seen.

What do you believe Heaven looks like Bro. Blume? Do you believe there is a throne with angels, worship, song, incense, etc? Or do you believe there's just a big bright light with amorphous glowing globes of light floating around doing "worship" like glowing globes do? lol

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

What do you believe Heaven looks like Bro. Blume? Do you believe there is a throne with angels, worship, song, incense, etc? Or do you believe there's just a big bright light with amorphous glowing globes of light floating around doing "worship" like glowing globes do? lol

You ask me what I believe, and do not respond with your own beliefs. Do you believe John saw God or not (According to Rev 4's vision of one on the throne), knowing that the same writer said no man has ever seen God?

I have no clue what Heaven looks like! I do believe there is an actual throne and Jesus actually sits on it. I believe angels are there and worship. But I have no idea what it actually looks like. Revelation only gives symbols of it all.

Bro., if you want liturgy THAT MUCH, enjoy it! Whatever you want. But you are arguing a weak argument if you're saying liturgy is correct because Heaven actually uses incense according to Revelation.