UPC District board suing church in MS.?

[aak1972]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I feel sorry for your situation but the truth is that the building is the only thing y'all are fighting over. What if the church hadn't been UPC all these years? What if there was no heritage or legacy? I somehow don't think any of you guys would be worried.

The truth is that your families suffered to build a church that will never be the same again. You have great memories or years gone by that will never ever be the same. I can promise that after this situation it will take years to rebuild if ever.

I am sure we aren't getting the full story and probably never will but the names and faces are different but this is very common. To rebuild this church will need a very strong leader and a man who is not selfish but I seriously doubt the church could attract anyone decent at this stage of the game.

You are correct and this will be my last post on this. The pastor has turned in his UPC license. And if the vote stands to disafiliate it will cause a church split. The attendance last Sunday was 110. After the split it will be about 60. It will be impossible to keep the doors open. And that is what I am mad about. A pastor comes in and causes a church split and the dream of many saints that have gone on of having a nice representation of PENTECOST will be gone. There is not another church in this city. There is one about 15 miles away. So after 57 years of having a Pentecostal church here there is a good chance it will be gone due to one pastorate.

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by aak1972

You are correct and this will be my last post on this. The pastor has turned in his UPC license. And if the vote stands to disafiliate it will cause a church split. The attendance last Sunday was 110. After the split it will be about 60. It will be impossible to keep the doors open. And that is what I am mad about. A pastor comes in and causes a church split and the dream of many saints that have gone on of having a nice representation of PENTECOST will be gone. There is not another church in this city. There is one about 15 miles away. So after 57 years of having a Pentecostal church here there is a good chance it will be gone due to one pastorate.

Well, don't just blame the pastor. Yes it looks like what he is doing is wrong but God might be using this unfortunate circumstance to free a lot of people from the weight of that building and the stigma in your community that is attached to it. When we left our church we had so many people come to us with their horror stories of our church and how we were perceived. We found out things that would blow your mind. Folks that knew us in the community could never understand how good people were apart of that church.

I was discussing this situation with someone yesterday that knows this church and the pastor and we both wondered if there will be any significant UPC churches in Mississippi in the next twenty or thirty years. It seems like the average church is around 75 people with an elderly population and the larger churches are going through splits with most of the younger generation leaving to become nondenominational or charismatic.

[Whole Hearted]

God bless this good man of God. This is a good man and pastor and God will make away for him and the good people who are following their pastor.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Well, don't just blame the pastor. Yes it looks like what he is doing is wrong but God might be using this unfortunate circumstance to free a lot of people from the weight of that building and the stigma in your community that is attached to it. When we left our church we had so many people come to us with their horror stories of our church and how we were perceived. We found out things that would blow your mind. Folks that knew us in the community could never understand how good people were apart of that church.

I was discussing this situation with someone yesterday that knows this church and the pastor and we both wondered if there will be any significant UPC churches in Mississippi in the next twenty or thirty years. It seems like the average church is around 75 people with an elderly population and the larger churches are going through splits with most of the younger generation leaving to become nondenominational or charismatic.

We had a very prominent district official that told us that our church would only succeed if the building would be destroyed and the people had to unite together in unity to re-build. Some people are so contentious that it doesn't matter who the Pastor is - they would NEVER be satisfied.

[tbpew]

Originally Posted by aak1972

But your telling the people that have made this obligation to walk away, it cannot legally be done. Since the loan is a legal document the secular court has to be involved. The board members that filed the suit are also the baord members that were kicked off the board. But thier name is still on the loan. They want to be removed from the loan. So to do this the court had to be involved. It is also against the Bible to walk away from a loan obligation.This is only one aspect of the suit.

thank you for sharing this factual setting.
I am more and more aware that if a defining component of a circumstance is conditional upon a contract (loan document) constructed within the temporal realm/secular realm, any remedy to a dispute will inherently re-engage the temporal, secular community.

Many of us who post on this board would never think twice to engage the secular lending community. Is it inherently wrong or faithless to imagine that we may enage the secular dispute resolution avenues if two parties find themselves irreconciablely divided about something that was created in the secular world? In this particular circumstance, a dispute among brethren, involving a purposed/desired alteration of a legal document needs a secular remedy because it was originated within the secular community. A civil court system is needed to affect this outcome if there is not a willingness on the part of one or both parties.

Its a hybridized circumstance. This 'mixing of modes' should cause a 'sober pause' among some of us spectators (myself included) about the available and appropriate responses.

It would seem like the sequence should be "church community judgement first" then secular.

If that sounds like I have walked away from scripture, I would reply that this circumstance originated and pertains to 'CEASAR' first, but is now a hybrid because it results in the intermingling of a temporal proceedure among members of God's Christ.

[Steve Epley]

I do not know this church nor it's pastor however the trash posted on here about him if this in an indicator of the type of folks bringing suit it is very telling. Air it out on a public forum and a civil court and then wonder why the world is disgusted with religion? This has been so onesided hopefully everyone reading will consider this?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do not know this church nor it's pastor however the trash posted on here about him if this in an indicator of the type of folks bringing suit it is very telling. Air it out on a public forum and a civil court and then wonder why the world is disgusted with religion? This has been so onesided hopefully everyone reading will consider this?

Couldn't agree more, Elder.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do not know this church nor it's pastor however the trash posted on here about him if this in an indicator of the type of folks bringing suit it is very telling. Air it out on a public forum and a civil court and then wonder why the world is disgusted with religion? This has been so onesided hopefully everyone reading will consider this?

I agree as well.

[jtork]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I do not know this church nor it's pastor however the trash posted on here about him if this in an indicator of the type of folks bringing suit it is very telling. Air it out on a public forum and a civil court and then wonder why the world is disgusted with religion? This has been so onesided hopefully everyone reading will consider this?

I am pretty sure most of the people on here probably do not anything about the situation and it is probably safe to say the ones that are involved in the lawsuit (I know all of them) probably do not even know this exists - so all of these posts say nothing about the people bringing the lawsuit.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by jtork

I am pretty sure most of the people on here probably do not anything about the situation and it is probably safe to say the ones that are involved in the lawsuit (I know all of them) probably do not even know this exists - so all of these posts say nothing about the people bringing the lawsuit.

Then there are those being sued which are the majority from what has been said here.