One of the Biggest Mistakes

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by StMark

when you've been hurt by the church you know other hurt people
and all the signs that go with it both good and bad

You are correct, but what does that have to do with festering.

Just as some have said here - - because some have been hurt, then can be an ear for others and a support - - let them know they can move on and leave the hurt behind.

Just because they talk about it doesn't mean they are still hurting.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

You are correct, but what does that have to do with festering.

Just as some have said here - - because some have been hurt, then can be an ear for others and a support - - let them know they can move on and leave the hurt behind.

Just because they talk about it doesn't mean they are still hurting.

I'm just saying that hurt often turns to bitterness when
you constantly feed it and pick at the wound.

You disagree with that?

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by StMark

I'm just saying that hurt often turns to bitterness when
you constantly feed it and pick at the wound.

You disagree with that?

Anyone knows that, but just because someone talks about their past doesn't mean they are bitter.

You accuse people of being bitter just when they are talking about it.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

Anyone knows that, but just because someone talks about their past doesn't mean they are bitter.

You accuse people of being bitter just when they are talking about it.

I made a out right accusation????

No, more like a personal observation.

[StMark]

~Be Healed Be Delivered



Be Set Free In Jesus Mighty Name~



A FAMOUS LINE FROM THE LATE BISHOP PATTERSON




.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by ILG

I think one of the biggest mistakes that the UPC makes is the emphasis on church, church, church rather than family. People are expected to come bare minimum of 3 services a week, just so they are not "forsaking the assembling" and then there are the bible studies, door knocking, bake sales, singing, etc. etc. etc. on top of it all. I have heard it said that some pastors emphasize a family night one night a week (mine did not). So, are the other 6 to be used for church?? There is little teaching on marriage, family, balance etc. Alsmot all the teaching, in my experience, is on Acts 2:38, going to church, winning the lost, giving and giving and giving to the church.

I don't think it has ever been God's will for people to spend so much time at church and doing church things. We need to focus on our families, our kids, our marriages, our work etc. This is the work of God. That should not be forgotten.

I can't really say anything about the UPC as I am not, nor have I ever been, UPC. I will say, though, that what you are referring to isn't limited to the UPC. I use to go to an independant church where the church WAS your life. Virtualy everything about your entire existence was the church. (Even our cars had to be identified with the church with license plates and/or bumper stickers.) Nothing wrong with that, if I choose to put a bumper sticker on my car. But theres the rub. I had no choice. It was "expected" of me to proudly display our "church" bumper sticker. The church was our life. And everything about our life, from where we worked to,.... well, things I won't mention, was subject to the pastors approval.

But I'm free of that. And, because I am really free from that, I hardly mention it. Or think about it. Because if I do, it still rules me. It controls me.

I do agree. Much of what some churches call "in depth" teaching is nothing more than playing around the shallow end of the pool. There certainly is more to teaching the Word of God than Acts 2:38. Teaching the word of God means more than opening the Book and opening the mouth. Our greatest teacher is example. Show me how to live. Show me what it means to be a Christian. Its not the Words Jesus spoke that teaches us what it means to be a disciple. His example teaches far more than words could ever teach. I knew a boy of about 12 who grew up in church that didn't believe in Sunday School. He had gone to church his whole life, yet I was the first (and, according to him, the only) person to teach him a Bible verse. I taught him John 11:35 "Jesus wept". I saw him about 6 years later though I didn't recognize him. He walked up and said "Jesus wept, John 11:35". He never forgot, because somebody took the time to feed him something fresh and wholesome, rather than "force feeding" him spiritual left-overs.

You mention balance. You'll not hear that word too often because to be "right", you've got to be "extreme". Extremely right. Extremely left. Doesn't matter really which one as long as you're not "balanced". Balanced is in the middle. Not hot, not cold.... just, lukewarm. (And everyone knows what happens to those who are lukewarm.) Balanced= lukewarm. Well, thats the perception of some. For this same reason, some people avoid the word moderate because it implies "Fence sitting". Compromise. But that isn't what it means to be "balanced" or "moderate".

Family. Family values. You would think with all the political rhetoric concerning family values there would be more indepth teaching on the subject. But thats just it. It seems to have been reduced to nothing more than political rhetoric.

Good post, ILG. But, allow me to caution you: Don't let the mistakes some churches make color your perception of all churches. Not all churches can be judged by one church. All ministires aren't evil dictators. For every one bad pastor, there are 100's who are good shepherds to good churches filled with good people. The problem is, we seldom hear about them. And that is what is so sad. The pastors who do care for the people, the churches that are refuge to the hurting do what they do in the shadows. They do it without recognition. Come to think of it... thats not so sad. Because some of Jesus' greatest miracles, like the raising of Lazarus, was done in the shadows of the tombs. His greatest act of mercy, the forgiving of the adulteress, was done without the recognition of a cheering crowd. Thank God for the pastors who care for God's people and see themslves as, not lord's over, but, as servants to, God's church.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I can't really say anything about the UPC as I am not, nor have I ever been, UPC. I will say, though, that what you are referring to isn't limited to the UPC. I use to go to an independant church where the church WAS your life. Virtualy everything about your entire existence was the church. (Even our cars had to be identified with the church with license plates and/or bumper stickers.) Nothing wrong with that, if I choose to put a bumper sticker on my car. But theres the rub. I had no choice. It was "expected" of me to proudly display our "church" bumper sticker. The church was our life. And everything about our life, from where we worked to,.... well, things I won't mention, was subject to the pastors approval.

But I'm free of that. And, because I am really free from that, I hardly mention it. Or think about it. Because if I do, it still rules me. It controls me.

I do agree. Much of what some churches call "in depth" teaching is nothing more than playing around the shallow end of the pool. There certainly is more to teaching the Word of God than Acts 2:38. Teaching the word of God means more than opening the Book and opening the mouth. Our greatest teacher is example. Show me how to live. Show me what it means to be a Christian. Its not the Words Jesus spoke that teaches us what it means to be a disciple. His example teaches far more than words could ever teach. I knew a boy of about 12 who grew up in church that didn't believe in Sunday School. He had gone to church his whole life, yet I was the first (and, according to him, the only) person to teach him a Bible verse. I taught him John 11:35 "Jesus wept". I saw him about 6 years later though I didn't recognize him. He walked up and said "Jesus wept, John 11:35". He never forgot, because somebody took the time to feed him something fresh and wholesome, rather than "force feeding" him spiritual left-overs.

You mention balance. You'll not hear that word too often because to be "right", you've got to be "extreme". Extremely right. Extremely left. Doesn't matter really which one as long as you're not "balanced". Balanced is in the middle. Not hot, not cold.... just, lukewarm. (And everyone knows what happens to those who are lukewarm.) Balanced= lukewarm. Well, thats the perception of some. For this same reason, some people avoid the word moderate because it implies "Fence sitting". Compromise. But that isn't what it means to be "balanced" or "moderate".

Family. Family values. You would think with all the political rhetoric concerning family values there would be more indepth teaching on the subject. But thats just it. It seems to have been reduced to nothing more than political rhetoric.

Good post, ILG. But, allow me to caution you: Don't let the mistakes some churches make color your perception of all churches. Not all churches can be judged by one church. All ministires aren't evil dictators. For every one bad pastor, there are 100's who are good shepherds to good churches filled with good people. The problem is, we seldom hear about them. And that is what is so sad. The pastors who do care for the people, the churches that are refuge to the hurting do what they do in the shadows. They do it without recognition. Come to think of it... thats not so sad. Because some of Jesus' greatest miracles, like the raising of Lazarus, was done in the shadows of the tombs. His greatest act of mercy, the forgiving of the adulteress, was done without the recognition of a cheering crowd. Thank God for the pastors who care for God's people and see themslves as, not lord's over, but, as servants to, God's church.

Great post, OA. We would be such a powerful force if we were content in the shadows.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by StMark

~Be Heald Be Delievered



Be Set Free In Jesus Mighty Name~



A FAMOUS LINE FROM THE LATE BISHOP PATTERSON.

I wonder, Bro. Mark... did the late Bishop Patterson say the words "healed" and "delivered" as badly as you spelled them? Just wondering.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I can't really say anything about the UPC as I am not, nor have I ever been, UPC. I will say, though, that what you are referring to isn't limited to the UPC. I use to go to an independant church where the church WAS your life. Virtualy everything about your entire existence was the church. (Even our cars had to be identified with the church with license plates and/or bumper stickers.) Nothing wrong with that, if I choose to put a bumper sticker on my car. But theres the rub. I had no choice. It was "expected" of me to proudly display our "church" bumper sticker. The church was our life. And everything about our life, from where we worked to,.... well, things I won't mention, was subject to the pastors approval.

But I'm free of that. And, because I am really free from that, I hardly mention it. Or think about it. Because if I do, it still rules me. It controls me.

I do agree. Much of what some churches call "in depth" teaching is nothing more than playing around the shallow end of the pool. There certainly is more to teaching the Word of God than Acts 2:38. Teaching the word of God means more than opening the Book and opening the mouth. Our greatest teacher is example. Show me how to live. Show me what it means to be a Christian. Its not the Words Jesus spoke that teaches us what it means to be a disciple. His example teaches far more than words could ever teach. I knew a boy of about 12 who grew up in church that didn't believe in Sunday School. He had gone to church his whole life, yet I was the first (and, according to him, the only) person to teach him a Bible verse. I taught him John 11:35 "Jesus wept". I saw him about 6 years later though I didn't recognize him. He walked up and said "Jesus wept, John 11:35". He never forgot, because somebody took the time to feed him something fresh and wholesome, rather than "force feeding" him spiritual left-overs.

You mention balance. You'll not hear that word too often because to be "right", you've got to be "extreme". Extremely right. Extremely left. Doesn't matter really which one as long as you're not "balanced". Balanced is in the middle. Not hot, not cold.... just, lukewarm. (And everyone knows what happens to those who are lukewarm.) Balanced= lukewarm. Well, thats the perception of some. For this same reason, some people avoid the word moderate because it implies "Fence sitting". Compromise. But that isn't what it means to be "balanced" or "moderate".

Family. Family values. You would think with all the political rhetoric concerning family values there would be more indepth teaching on the subject. But thats just it. It seems to have been reduced to nothing more than political rhetoric.

Good post, ILG. But, allow me to caution you: Don't let the mistakes some churches make color your perception of all churches. Not all churches can be judged by one church. All ministires aren't evil dictators. For every one bad pastor, there are 100's who are good shepherds to good churches filled with good people. The problem is, we seldom hear about them. And that is what is so sad. The pastors who do care for the people, the churches that are refuge to the hurting do what they do in the shadows. They do it without recognition. Come to think of it... thats not so sad. Because some of Jesus' greatest miracles, like the raising of Lazarus, was done in the shadows of the tombs. His greatest act of mercy, the forgiving of the adulteress, was done without the recognition of a cheering crowd. Thank God for the pastors who care for God's people and see themslves as, not lord's over, but, as servants to, God's church.

Thank you for this excellent post OA.

[StMark]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I wonder, Bro. Mark... did the late Bishop Patterson say the words "healed" and "delivered" as badly as you spelled them? Just wondering.

geesh! Did you have to make a whole post about it???

I corrected it but I thought your post was a little over the top