I want to know whats the shocking part? That they love sex and drugs? That shouldnt shock anyone. I know dozens of ex UPC youth that love sex and drugs. These kids are just talented enough to become popular and sing about it. If I had that talent I would probably be a country singer singing about my divorce and lost doublewide.
I don't see how anyone can even remotely see these sorts of things as a "UPC problem". Can anyone name any organization or church that does not have young people (and adults) who get involved in things they shouldn't? If it could happen to the New Testament church just years after Jesus walked the earth, it can certainly happen now....and I don't see the connection with the UPC or it as an indication that it is near impossible to have an encounter with God in the UPC.
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There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
The funny thing is I have heard Michael English talk about how he faked worship when he would sing with his family while growing up, because if he didn't raise his hand or testify when he was on stage, he knew he was going to get beat later on. He certainly was not raised in the UPC.
It is hardly a isolated thing for people to "fake" their worship or experience with God we have seen countless preachers of various denominations fall and testify later that they were living a lie. It isn't a denomination or generational thing, it is a human frailty thing, and we are all capable of it.
No its not isolated but when teenagers see the fakers getting praise for being so close to GOD b/c they jumped etc.... And then see the same kids do worse things than they do the same night after service will have a negative impact.
I don't see how anyone can even remotely see these sorts of things as a "UPC problem". Can anyone name any organization or church that does not have young people (and adults) who get involved in things they shouldn't? If it could happen to the New Testament church just years after Jesus walked the earth, it can certainly happen now....and I don't see the connection with the UPC or it as an indication that it is near impossible to have an encounter with God in the UPC.
Did i say it was an organizational issue or that it was impossible to have an encounter with GOD? No!
Did i say it was an organizational issue or that it was impossible to have an encounter with GOD? No!
I am just commenting that I have seen it presented as both on this thread and that is absurd to me. I can't remember who all said what over the last few days of this, but it has definitely been presented as such.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
I don't see how anyone can even remotely see these sorts of things as a "UPC problem". Can anyone name any organization or church that does not have young people (and adults) who get involved in things they shouldn't? If it could happen to the New Testament church just years after Jesus walked the earth, it can certainly happen now....and I don't see the connection with the UPC or it as an indication that it is near impossible to have an encounter with God in the UPC.
Good post, Stew!!! Just got off the phone with one of my sisters, who is involved in the Baptist Church, sharing some of her frustrating stories. LOL! People are just people - everywhere!
OK I am done on this thread! Here I am arguing about people I dont know and a subject that I dont care about. I did not mean any offense I was just pointing out a subject that was brought up at school reunion. It was a church school in a UPC church. And some of us agreed that was one of the main things we remembered as a youth, the fakers gettin all the praise from the platform. The crazy thing is most of them are no longer in church and us regular folks are. I was offerin a suggestion that this may be on of the reasons for these kids (kings of leon) to go the direction they did.
I don't see how anyone can even remotely see these sorts of things as a "UPC problem". Can anyone name any organization or church that does not have young people (and adults) who get involved in things they shouldn't? If it could happen to the New Testament church just years after Jesus walked the earth, it can certainly happen now....and I don't see the connection with the UPC or it as an indication that it is near impossible to have an encounter with God in the UPC.
No one is claiming this is a UPC problem. But there are specific issues that are closely connected to the culture of Pentecostalism and things that happen frequently within the UPC that were being discussed in this thread. Mainly that certain imbalances have occurred to the point that the gospel message has not been emphasized because it doesn't hype the folks up.
OK I am done on this thread! Here I am arguing about people I dont know and a subject that I dont care about. I did not mean any offense I was just pointing out a subject that was brought up at school reunion. It was a church school in a UPC church. And some of us agreed that was one of the main things we remembered as a youth, the fakers gettin all the praise from the platform. The crazy thing is most of them are no longer in church and us regular folks are. I was offerin a suggestion that this may be on of the reasons for these kids (kings of leon) to go the direction they did.
Thanks for your input. Your point is right on. It is almost impossible to have an honest discussion because people go into defense mode. I can't figure out if it is the doctrine that makes people like this or the people are attracted to the doctrine.
Truth is, if they had been from "any other religious group" they wouldn't be talked about near as much, if at all, on AFF or anywhere else.
No one would be shocked by their behavior if they came from any other religious group other than UPCI or similar apostolic group.
Once again, there are facts involved here that go much farther and much deeper than any "religious group".
There are a lot of celebrities who grew up in church, and drifted very far from it... (such as Phil Jackson, Sam Kinison, Marilyn Manson, Jessica Alba, as well as a ton of African-American entertainers) but people don't usually seem to blame the church environment they grew up in. People tend to just see it as being an individual decision that the person made.
But if the person was UPC or apostolic, then all of a sudden it's no longer just an individual decision; instead, people would rather speculate about the "oppressive, legalistic, spiritually abusive conditions" they must have grown up in in the UPC/Apostolic church, blah blah blah.
It's an interesting double standard.
__________________ http://endtimeobserver.blogspot.com
Daniel 12:3 And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever.
Here's my point. I am a musician myself. I study musicians. If you were to read the biographies of most musicians singing secular music and involved in secular lifestyles, you may be amazed at how many of them started off in church and used to be active in church. The percentage of those people who started off in the UPC specifically is minute. This is no where near a UPC problem. The issue here is that we finally see one with ties to the UPC that becomes marginally successful (I could not pick them out of a line-up with a gun to my head)...and people rail about how this is a reflection on the org, etc... I think that you have to look beyond whatever experiences you may have had and see the bigger picture.
__________________
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Houston.
Either the United States will destroy ignorance, or ignorance will destroy the United States. – W.E.B. DuBois
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