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  #31  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:30 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
The Septuagint was the Bible of the first century apostles and accounts for almost all of the quotations of the Old Testament found in the New. It is also the source of the names of the Old Testament books (Genesis, Exodus, etc) that we use.

I was reading the Hypostasis of the Archons online the other day. It's part of the Nag Hammadi Library of Gnostic texts. Most of the so-called "lost books of the Bible" are Gnostic in origin.

It's interesting. If you've got a lot of down time and enjoy reading comparative literature it can be rewarding. It would be good to also read something like an historical criticism of the works you're looking at. There are usually pretty good reasons why the books were "lost."

The Dead Sea Scrolls are important because in addition to the ancient copies of many books from the Bible, we also have quotations within other works that give us a complete Old Testament - sans the book of Esther (sorry).
The story of Esther & Mardecai is thought by many to be a telling of the story of Ishtar & Markuk.
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  #32  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:31 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
And (likely) other NT writers, though not by name. And Jude ascribes some authority to it, calling it prophecy:

Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, 15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Probably not a good candidate for canon, though. It wasn't really written by Enoch nor during his time. Less that 300 years before Christ, it seems. And, well,.... about those 3000-cubit tall giants. Hmmm. (Does that raise some question about the book of Jude?)
1 Corinthians wasn't really written by Paul - but they let that one in. Jeremiah was written by Baruch. The "Books of Moses" are really more about Moses than a compilation of his writings. In fact, in many places we find obvious references that cause us to believe that Moses could not have written the bulk of the work.

It seems parts of the Book of Enoch were endorsed by Jude and Peter just as other non-canonical works are cited elsewhere in the Bible (the Book of Jasher, the Book of the Wars of the Lord, etc).

Arguing against the claims of Fundamentalism isn't really an argument against the inspiration of the Bible.
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  #33  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:36 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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1 Corinthians wasn't really written by Paul . . .
Really? It says it's by Paul, right there in the infallible, inspired verse 1 Cor 1:1.
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  #34  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:38 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
1 Corinthians wasn't really written by Paul - but they let that one in. Jeremiah was written by Baruch. The "Books of Moses" are really more about Moses that a compilation of his writings. In fact, in many places we find obvious references that cause us to believe that Moses could not have written the bulk of the work.

It seems parts of the Book of Enoch were endorsed by Jude and Peter just as other non-canonical works are cited elsewhere in the Bible (the Book of Jasher, the Book of the Wars of the Lord, etc).

Arguing against the claims of Fundamentalism isn't really an argument against the inspiration of the Bible.
Interesting too...

The Genesis account is predated by quite a lengthy time by the Sumerian account of creation.

Both documents speak of a time when the earth was without form & void.
Both give a similar order of creation events.
And yet the Sumerian document predates the writing of Genesis by quite along shot.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:43 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by Digging4Truth View Post
The story of Esther & Mardecai is thought by many to be a telling of the story of Ishtar & Markuk.
Except that Ishtar has to go through the fiery palace that leads to the underworld and needs a set of codes to open the gates. Isis and Osiris in the Egyptian Book of the Dead is a clear derivative of the Ishtar/Marduk saga. The Book of Esther leaves out too many of the important story arcs. As genre it seems to fit better with the theme of the Solitary Jew in a Foreign Court - like the stories of Joseph and Daniel. There are secular accounts similar to this theme such as The Journey of Wen-Amon.

Just my humble opinion.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:46 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Really? It says it's by Paul, right there in the infallible, inspired verse 1 Cor 1:1.
Verse 1 introduces the speaker.

The postscript reads: 1Co 16:24 My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. <The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus.>
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  #37  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:50 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by pelathais View Post
Verse 1 introduces the speaker.

The postscript reads: 1Co 16:24 My love be with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. <The first epistle to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus.>
Did Paul dictate the letter to these four men?
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:53 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by Timmy View Post
And (likely) other NT writers, though not by name. And Jude ascribes some authority to it, calling it prophecy:
...
Just because Jude quotes a prophecy attributed to Enoch does not mean he is quoting from a book by that name. It could have been common knowledge among the folks in that first century when Jude wrote that Enoch had prophesied those words orally but that they had never been written down.

An example of something like that is found in Acts 20:35. Here the Apostle Paul says that Jesus said, "It is more blessed to give than to receive" yet these words do not appear in our 4 Gospels in our New Testament.
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  #39  
Old 01-06-2009, 09:55 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

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Originally Posted by Esther View Post
What is you thoughts on the "lost books of the Bible"?

Would you want to read them? Yes

Do you believe they were lost? No, I do beleive that there was a reason why they were not included in the Bible. (KJV)

Do you believe in the Dead Sea Scrolls? Yes

How about the Septuante (sp) do you believe it is authentic? I would have to do more studing on it.
Sometimes you can get certain books about the lost books of the Bible from the library. I have before.
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2009, 10:02 AM
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Re: Lost Books of the Bible?

Check out the 36th chapter of the book of Jeremiah. YHWH tells him to write down his prophecies so he has Baruch do it as he dictates it. This was destroyed by the king but God tells him to write it again, so again, the scribe does the writing.

From what I understand, Paul is the author of most of our New Testament but the actual writing was done by scribes under his direction.

To me, that does not detract from the inspiration of the Bible.
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