Bait and Switch: Pentecostal Deception?

[Sister Alvear]

I have seen people aborted...so much wisdom is needed working with people.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Pastor Keith

I have 2 intial reactions, the first one is that spiritual truths (if that it was standards are) should be taught over time, sanctification is a process. Salvation in and of itself is like a man in darkness walking into the light. A person can only handle so much light until his eyes adjust. That is of course if you believe them to be salvational.

The second reaction we shouldn't be teaching these things as salvational especially if there is no scripture at all for them to be addressed. Keep in mind the Epistles were written to saved folks, telling them what to do now that they are saved, revealing not everything comes up front, some things have to be taught over time. The writer of Hebrews said that he had much to share but because of the immaturity of the hearers they were not ready to receive it.

Good post...

I was almost 24 yrs. in the COOLJC, and the pastor's wife always said, "If we set a good example, the new convert will follow the pattern they see."

I remember as a child in school comeone asking me what our church believed. My response was, "Well, let me tell you what we don't believe..." and I listed it all...we don't do this, and we do this and the other..

When I went home and told my parents, they said that I should never do that..."Tell them how a person is saved..."

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

I have seen people aborted...so much wisdom is needed working with people.

Amen...

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Barb

I remember as a child in school comeone asking me what our church believed. My response was, "Well, let me tell you what we don't believe..." and I listed it all...we don't do this, and we do this and the other..

When I went home and told my parents, they said that I should never do that..."Tell them how a person is saved..."

That was my response as a child, when asked about my 'religion'...... "we believe in One God, we don't believe in the Trinity, we believe you have to get the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues, and we don't watch tv, or wear pants, or cut our hair, or wear makeup, or......."

Kids just tell it like it is. To me, those things defined our 'religion'.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by CC1

Don't you think the idea is that once a person is baptized and receives the Holy Ghost they will be more receptive to the non biblical legalism that is going to be thrust upon them?

To upfront, in every evangelistic service I guess, go down the clothesline of what will be expected of them IF they come to an altar, repent, are baptized, and receive the Holy Ghost seems absurd to me.

I am sure glad we don't have legalism.
My son sings in a choir at a large public university. At the last concert all the women wore black dresses and men black suits and ties. Nothing legalistic about it. very little make up. Good people of good character welcome and follow directions and leadership. Rebellious folks have patterns of reacting when told what to do.

If someone offers a suggestion you react to, always keep a legalist card handy. Play the legalism card quickly and frequently.

[Jack Shephard]

I think it is like fishing. You put the bait out there that will tempt them to bite. Once they do they are reeled in, cleaned, skinned, cooked and consumed. Very bad.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

For goodness sake, we have reams of documents stating such.

Let's be honest here, we know full well what we will expect of any convert. We know what we want them to look like, what we want them to get rid of and so on. We know because we fully expect conformity to our traditional views concerning holiness.

So, why not be up front about it?

Sad, but true.

So why NOT be honest? Surely money doesn't have anything to do with it????

[*AQuietPlace*]

I have honestly NEVER been to a church that was obsessed with money. If they were that worried about the money, they'd NEVER tell the new converts about the 'standards'.


People throw that accusation out there a lot, and I know there are some pastors who are way obsessed with money.... but most I know are NOT.

[Neck]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

We preach Holy Ghost baptism to new people who don't understand it.

IF we believe holiness is as essential as the New Birth (and we do), why wouldn't we preach it as stridently?

I have never heard a sermon on standards that caused me to think.

Wow he is right I will never wear shorts again while cutting my grass.

Praching Standards is not a message that will bring conviction upon the sinner.

It is the preaching of the Cross.

If you put standards into a box of sin you are not on the right track.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I have honestly NEVER been to a church that was obsessed with money. If they were that worried about the money, they'd NEVER tell the new converts about the 'standards'.


People throw that accusation out there a lot, and I know there are some pastors who are way obsessed with money.... but most I know are NOT.

"Numbers" is about money. If they were to preach from the pulpit that "FULL TRUTH" they are so proud of (which includes the holiness standards), they'd lose half of their congregation.

Withholding truth is dishonesty. Place your right hand on the bible and repeat after me... "I swear to tell the truth, the WHOLE truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me God."

If they believe it is PART OF TRUTH... it should be preached as such.

What I've noticed is, keep them coming, they are good enough to sit in the pews and give... and maybe someday they'll GROW UP...

Ends up in hurt feelings and lack of trust and respect.