Communion is not longer binding since it was to be done TIL the Lord comes.
Eld. Epley, please explain the purpose of the Lord instituting His Supper (communion).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
The gifts INCLUDING speaking in tongues were to cease when the Lord came thus NO true FP can speak in tongues.
So then, according to YOUR beliefs; after Jesus "comes again" and the Church is taken in the “pre-trib rapture,” the Holy Ghost and tongues would cease. So you are in fact a cessationalist. AFPs are not because we believe the Holy Ghost and tongues will forever be available.
Since you teach that the Holy Ghost will someday be unavailable, your position also requires an different way for those “left behind” to receive salvation. This means you are in fact teaching there will be another gospel. Eld. Epley, don’t you know what the Apostle Paul said about those who teach “another gospel”??? (see Gal 1:6-7) And yet, here you are, proposing exactly that. And you claim AFP is dangerous and is heresy??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Church attendance was determined as they saw the day approaching so NO true FP has to assemble.
Eld. Epley, you err not knowing the scriptures. Here is what that verse actually says: “Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching” (Heb 10:25). It does not say it would cease, but that they were to assemble even more as it drew near. If you would study the scriptures in your Bible instead of reading your Scofield Study Bible’s sidenotes, you could have seen this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
The edicts given in 1Thess 5. including pray without ceasing-rejoice evermore-quench not the Spirit-in everything give thanks were UNTIL the coming thus NOT binding on the church today.
Again, you studynotes are blinding you. The word "UNTIL" is not even found one time in the entirety of 1 Thessalonians epistle. So please, Eld. Epley, give the verse(s) where YOU have found what you claim here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
FP's can pass final judgments since they could judge nothing until.
Just a sample of problems forced on FP's by their false doctrine.
Eld. Epley, where did you derive this fictitious claim? Did you find it in your Bible? Did you hear or read an AFP say it? Eld. Epley, are you purposely trying to malign us, or are you really this confused?
Dear reader, I told you Eld. Epley would change the subject and go into misrepresentations. After all these years, this is what I have ALWAYS seen him do. As a matter of fact, I can post all kinds of examples where he has done similar things in all the forums where we have talked over the years. One thing for sure about Eld. Epley, he is consistent….
__________________
The Bible is open to those that want Truth, and if they want Truth, they find Truth. They watch individuals squabble over Bible symbolism on the Internet, and leave the Message boards to enter into the real world where live people dwell, and they find Truth. The World Wide Web is full of Internet Ayatollahs who speak their mind. There is only one Truth, and it is not hidden. No matter what anyone says, Truth still converts the sincere. -DD Benincasa, 12/06/03
I'll check it out. I listened to 1 of your teachings concerning this subject about 2-3 months back, but I have forgotten most of it. Maybe this will refresh my memory.
__________________ As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
Eld. Epley, you’ve “never proposed to believe these”?? Are you sure about that? The link I gave (HERE) showed where YOU admitted to believe three of the six. It also showed where I explained that you must in fact believe the other three. You know I am telling the truth. Anyone going there and reading our discussion can see that for themselves.
I’ve asked you these same six questions since FCF. You never started claiming you did not believe them until this year. So, to make this perfectly clear, you now say there is no gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel. You also say you’ve never believed there will be a secret pre-tribulation rapture of the Church. And you never believed an Antichrist will make a 7-year covenant with the Jews. These are part of those same six questions. Are you sure you’ve never taught these before? Do the men you fellowship with know that you do not believe these??
Eld. Epley, please be honest here. You know you believe all six. You always did before. Why claim otherwise now? Is it because you finally, after all these years, came to terms with the fact that you cannot find any scriptures that prove your Dispensational beliefs are in fact in the Bible? If so, welcome to reality!
Now, I hope everybody watches how Eld. Epley will – AGAIN - sidestep the above facts. Watch what he does….
Also, Eld. Epley’s normal retort whenever he gets cornered and cannot back up his beliefs or his statements is to retreat to asking other questions and/or making false accusations. If you’ll notice that is exactly what he does. Now remember, I’ve told him dozens of times if he will give his six little scriptures I will repent, renounce, and rewrite everything I believe about AFP. Wouldn’t you think a preacher concerned with another’s salvation would jump on that if they were able? And yet, now after almost six years, he still finds excuses for why he doesn’t give these six scriptures. Strange, isn’t it??
Come on Eld. Epley, it’s only six scriptures….. Can’t you even find six scriptures that says your Dispensational beliefs are in fact in the Bible? Not even six?
Again you pick and choose between the six and assign all six to me of which I have never said I believe.
Paul makes all of these clear:
The Lord's supper is to show forth his death TIL HE COMES. 1Cor. 11:26
The Church is come behind in no gift WAITING FOR THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. 1Cor. 1:8
Yes the gifts that which is done in part shall be done away with WHEN THAT WHICH IS PERFECT IS COME. 1Cor. 13:10
THose edicts found in 1Thess. 5 are predicated on verse 23 UNTO THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Teh assembling of ourselves together is predicated on AS YE SEE THE DAY APPROACHING. HEB. 1O:25
Again the early church was commanded judge nothing before the time, UNTIL THE LORD COMES. 1Cor.4:5
It is not my fault your heresy places your in such an untenable position. You guys have to come up with new revelations and symbols and 14 allegories to explain the clear teaching about the return of the Lord.
If the Lord came in 70AD all these edicts are no longer in the church.
Would you please explain, with chapter and verse, what "that which is perfect" exactly is?
Thanks!
Could you do the same please?
I am going to try and find time to study this thread out. I can not imagine anyone believing that the rapture has already happened.
__________________
Happy moments, PRAISE GOD.
Difficult moments, SEEK GOD.
Quiet moments, WORSHIP GOD.
Painful moments, TRUST GOD.
Every moment, THANK GOD.
If I have this right, after reading your article, the tongues will cease (the bible does say cease, which we all know means stop) , or no longer be needed, after we all move into "perfection"?
Please post your explaination, either or both of you, in particular about the tongues ceasing.
I do believe the 'face to face" in context, is speaking of reflection, its an unclear reflection now, but then we'll see and know ourselvesus as God knows us. (Not face to face, our face seeing his face, MHO)
__________________ As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
If I have this right, after reading your article, the tongues will cease (the bible does say cease, which we all know means stop) , or no longer be needed, after we all move into "perfection"?
Please post your explaination, either or both of you, in particular about the tongues ceasing.
I do believe the 'face to face" in context, is speaking of reflection, its an unclear reflection now, but then we'll see and know ourselvesus as God knows us. (Not face to face, our face seeing his face, MHO)
shag just open your concordance and look every place the term "face to face" is used it ALWAYS is one literal face looking at another literal face NEVER a allegory. 1Jn. 3:1-2 gives help with the verse.
tongues will cease
knowledge(superantural) knowledge will vanish away
the gifts are no longer needed because we are seeing Him the gifts are the part and He is the perfect.
I believe all other translations besides the KJV, renders "glass" as "mirror". And in the strongs under glass for that verse, it says mirror, if my memory serves me right. That is why i came to that conclusion. (IE; glass reflection as in James 1:23)
__________________ As for me, may I never boast about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. Because of that cross, my interest in this world has been crucified, and the world’s interest in me has also died.- Gal. 6:14
AFP 1996,
What is your view and interpretation of the scripture regarding "whether there be tongues they shall cease"?
Thanks
Tongues like knowledge and prophecy will cease if a Christian does not continue to mature until they reach the full measure of the stature of Christ Jesus. Paul stated that he traviled again until Jesus was formed in the Christians of Galatia(?). This is not a coming of the Lord issue. It is a maturity issue. That is the context of that verse. People who apply this to End Time prophecy are taking it out of the context it was written in. Look at this link:
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